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Nomnoml

nomnoml.com

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Re: Nomnoml

#91

Post by Exuma »

hk__2 wrote: post #35
sBqQu3U0wH wrote: post #27

These tools show up from time to time here, and I can appreciate the technical side of things and effort put into building the tool. However, I cannot imagine using something like this in practice - either at work or for my own uses. It's so much easier just to select, drag and drop graphical elements instead of spending time learning a specific markup language and typing everything out, hoping that the elements will…

> Maybe it's not too bad for very simple diagrams but unmanageable for anything complex On the contrary, I use drag&drop tools for very simple diagrams but prefer using PlantUML for anything complex because its text-based interface makes it easy to generate, diff or store in a git repository. The best of both worlds would be a text-based tool to hold the semantics of your graph, and then a drag&drop interface to fix…

How does plantUML compare to this

Re: Nomnoml

#93

Post by kordlessagain »

candiddevmike wrote: post #85
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use mermaid sequence diagrams all the time and much prefer them to using whatever app. GitHub can render them which is nice. Refactoring them is easier than dragging 20 boxes around too in my opinion. I've done a couple Gantt charts. I see they support c4 which I need to try. We don't have many options of approved diagramming software where I work though. Omnigraffle which I don't care much for, and Visio which doe…

I wish there was a way to easily export mermaid diagrams to PNG or PDF. Right now sharing the diagrams, especially ones that scroll, is a pain in the ass.

This could be rewritten to save locally or an endpoint you run: https://github.com/kordless/mitta-screenshot. The code is in background.js. Just fullscreen the graph then click the icon.

Re: Nomnoml

#94

Post by perrygeo »

sBqQu3U0wH wrote: post #27

These tools show up from time to time here, and I can appreciate the technical side of things and effort put into building the tool. However, I cannot imagine using something like this in practice - either at work or for my own uses. It's so much easier just to select, drag and drop graphical elements instead of spending time learning a specific markup language and typing everything out, hoping that the elements will…

> It's so much easier just to select, drag and drop graphical elements instead of spending time learning a specific markup language and typing everything out

You state this like a fact. A GUI might be your personal preference but markup is preferred by many. It takes me an order of magnitude longer to learn where all the buttons are than it does to internalize markdown syntax from a few good examples. In a GUI you spend time futzing around with visual details, In a markup chart you spend time building and communicating a coherent mental model. The difference in output quality is apparent to me.

There's an analogy to programming: sure we have visual programming tools but who uses them? they break down when things get mildly complex. A markup driven charting tool lets me edit in the comfort of my chosen IDE, check it into source control to collaborate, renders live instead of checking in an image artifact, and has clearly-defined semantics (ie not just a pile of incoherent boxes and arrows). IMO, it's superior in every way except fine-grained control of the layout (which is a fine tradeoff for me - I want my readers to focus on content - consistency is more valuable than styling). If your purpose is communicating complex ideas (not making a pretty picture) markup-based charts have some distinct advantages that you just can't get from a point-and-click interface.

Re: Nomnoml

#95

Post by z500 »

CapsAdmin wrote: post #18
mactavish88 wrote: post #4

Very cool! It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If I wasn't paid to work full time on open source software, I'd think very carefully about whether to do any open source work nowadays.

> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If you create something from the perspective of "I had to make this on my unpaid spare time..", then requests for additional work do seem annoying. But is that the case here? If I made a utility I thought other people could also benefit from I'd personally be open to suggestions. I'd igno…

I have a tool I've been working on on and off, and after several years it's actually working. But I was barely smart enough to do even that. If people actually started using it and asking for features that would be a nightmare for me lol

Re: Nomnoml

#96

Post by dathinab »

layer8 wrote: post #45
vidarh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and in many case you also somewhat want something which is less precise (and verbose) then UML theoretically is This tends to be "the" big problem with UML (and similar): Very few people care about, or have a reason to, stick 100% to UML. They want to "speak diagrams", and just like written or spoken language, our syntax and semantics is context dependent and dependent on the dialect and speech patterns and underst…

It’s a pity, because one benefit of UML would be that everyone speaks the same language. Before UML, there were many different modeling notations [0], and the goal with UML was to create a single interoperable unified language. This was successful insofar as it displaced the previous object modeling languages. However, it would be nice to have that benefit of a modeling lingua franca not only in modeling tools, but f…

I think the problem comes from the difference between "modelling" as in the CS field of modelling and diagram generation for documentation purpose.

They are fundamentally two different use-cases which just seem similar if you ignore all the subtle but important details.

But UML tries to bridge both by having something you roughly could describes of "layers" of details.

But for documentation, especially tutorials, well suited diagrams aren't often just simplified by omitting/grouping details or similar. They are often simplified in ways which makes them subtle wrong in ways anyone getting started with the software can ignore and (hopefully) a foot note about this wrongness.

And most times for most people it's only ever used for less formal diagrams instead of "proper modelling". And more often for on-boarding/tutorial documentation then for deep technical documentation.

Re: Nomnoml

#97

Post by JadeNB »

wolletd wrote: post #67
mactavish88 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been working on open source software for 5 years now, GitHub issues are my primary source of truth for what users want and how to go about prioritizing features. If people can’t be bothered to log an issue or thumbs-up/comment on an existing one, it can’t be such an important thing to them.

First you complain that people are asking for more free stuff, then you complain that they are asking in the wrong place? Whats your point? Aren't people allowed to discuss stuff other people share with them on the internet?

> Whats your point? Aren't people allowed to discuss stuff other people share with them on the internet?

I think their point might be: such discussion might be fun for users, but could be unpleasant or unproductive for the maintainer. That's a totally different concern to express from "don't talk about this at all." Personally, the first thing I do with new software is see what I can do with it, and what I might want to do with it, and I can get carried away in a discussion thread. There's no harm in remembering that the maintainer might be here reading, and keeping their reaction in mind is no huge ask.

Re: Nomnoml

#99

Post by xoac »

CapsAdmin wrote: post #18
mactavish88 wrote: post #4

Very cool! It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If I wasn't paid to work full time on open source software, I'd think very carefully about whether to do any open source work nowadays.

> It blows my mind though how the moment that someone offers free stuff, the first comments are people asking for more free stuff. If you create something from the perspective of "I had to make this on my unpaid spare time..", then requests for additional work do seem annoying. But is that the case here? If I made a utility I thought other people could also benefit from I'd personally be open to suggestions. I'd igno…

Do you maintain any popular open source projects?

Re: Nomnoml

#100

Post by Veuxdo »

candiddevmike wrote: post #85
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use mermaid sequence diagrams all the time and much prefer them to using whatever app. GitHub can render them which is nice. Refactoring them is easier than dragging 20 boxes around too in my opinion. I've done a couple Gantt charts. I see they support c4 which I need to try. We don't have many options of approved diagramming software where I work though. Omnigraffle which I don't care much for, and Visio which doe…

I wish there was a way to easily export mermaid diagrams to PNG or PDF. Right now sharing the diagrams, especially ones that scroll, is a pain in the ass.

On the other hand, sharing via images isn't good, because the recipient loses accessibility. Probably better to just share the original in most cases.
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