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Two-parent households should be a policy goal

theatlantic.com

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Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#91

Post by codexb »

michaelleland wrote: post #2

The tax credits for married people here in the US seem to be part of this type of policy, no?

There aren't any tax credits for married couples. There are tax credits for parents, and they aren't reduced by divorce. The tax benefits of filing "married" isn't any better than filing as "head of household" (which doesn't require marriage), and filing as either sometimes provide a disadvantage when both parents are working and earn similar incomes.

In the US at least, the financial and legal incentives for women to divorce is far, far greater.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#92

Post by baq »

People don't want to have children because:

1) they can't afford it, or

2) they don't have a reasonable apartment/home (same thing as 1. really)

3) they don't want to give up their lifestyle

4) they're genuinely afraid the future is dystopian and dark (which is rather interesting since I can't imagine a future more dystopian than one without children)

So if you want to fix the society to want to have children again you have to make it

1) affordable,

2) less inconvenient,

3) (not really sure what to do about being afraid of the future)

if that sounds like socialism... too bad. Capitalism evidently makes people prefer capital (both money and time) over children.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#94

Post by ormaybejust »

anon291 wrote: post #66
_greim_ wrote: post #46

The problem with two-parent is you're a single misstep away from one-parent. Multi-generational and communal households would be more resilient, and easier to accommodate via tax incentives and housing policy.

A multi generational household occurs naturally when grandma and grandpa had a stable two parent households and now mom and dad do too. Moreover, it's not necessary to force everyone in the same house. My parents and inlaws are within 20 minutes. It's great and since they are both married and happy, there's little family stress and the kids get ample time with both grandparents. God forbid, if anything were to happen…

[dead]

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#95

Post by sokoloff »

kwere wrote: post #43
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #10

I don't think that's been sociologically plausible for many decades. Some things are easy to tear down and nearly impossible to build back up. In some circles, the mere suggestion that this should be a policy goal is insulting, as it hints that single-parent homes are inferior. Our government isn't really allowed to prefer one over the other, even if it would result in less misery. Furthermore, the tools that governm…

>it hints that single-parent homes are inferior. Yeah they are, expecially for the average childrens in average single household (struggling single-mothers). The idea that being a single mother is heroic is dumb and a disservice for everybody, expecially the children involved. At best single-parents are Martyrs. Obviously there are the exceptions but data shows that single-parent households are extremily more likely…

I think your first paragraph makes some strong points. I think your second paragraph veers so far off in a policy direction that is utterly untenable, that it made me carefully re-read your first paragraph to make sure I hadn't missed something borderline insane in it.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#96

Post by Workaccount2 »

the_other wrote: post #70
a-user-you-like wrote: post #19

Nothing better than a father and mother in a stable, loving relationship for a child. Yes, let’s encourage this.

It’s not a universal good. It’s often good (I grew up this way, as did most of my friends and we’re mostly fine), but the nuclear family is also sometimes a breeding ground for the worst abuses. Insisting on it, giving it special privilege gives privilege to those abuses. Kids absolutely benefit from stable, nurturing surroundings. But that could take so many other forms: multi-generational families, co-parenting, “i…

The distraction is dredging up edge-cases to weigh down progress.

Should every vehicle made be wheelchair accessible because some people have wheelchairs? Same logic here.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#97

Post by anon291 »

matthewfelgate wrote: post #78
giantg2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Forcing unhappy people to stay together or get married doesn't help anyone." I largely agree, but the idea of promoting two parent households isn't antithetical to your statement. You could have programs that are meant to ensure that couples get married for the right reasons, with the right skills, etc. It's likely a marriage prep/ed course would result in fewer divorces, just as drivers ed results in better drivers…

You want people to go to marriage school?! Honestly what planet are you living on.

The Catholic church requires marriage school (often the priest goes over a large standardized list of questions about how the marriage will be structured to verify you've thought it all through).

Catholics have significantly lower divorce rates: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/28161/catholics-cont...

From my priest friends, I've heard horror stories of couples they've managed to convince not to marry. We are talking couples who could not agree on kids, or who had major family issues or resentment, or couldn't agree on finances.

It's best for everyone if these just don't marry.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#98

Post by morkalork »

anon291 wrote: post #66
_greim_ wrote: post #46

The problem with two-parent is you're a single misstep away from one-parent. Multi-generational and communal households would be more resilient, and easier to accommodate via tax incentives and housing policy.

A multi generational household occurs naturally when grandma and grandpa had a stable two parent households and now mom and dad do too. Moreover, it's not necessary to force everyone in the same house. My parents and inlaws are within 20 minutes. It's great and since they are both married and happy, there's little family stress and the kids get ample time with both grandparents. God forbid, if anything were to happen…

At least in Canada, inflated house prices have destroyed this unless you plan on living in your parents or in-laws house with your spouse and child.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#99

Post by codexb »

ajmurmann wrote: post #49
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #12

There was an excellent NYT article about this as well: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/single-parent-pov... > We are often reluctant to acknowledge one of the significant drivers of child poverty — the widespread breakdown of family — for fear that to do so would be patronizing or racist.

If we are concerned about poverty, maybe we could just give them money? I understand the fairly small child tax credit had a huge positive impact on child poverty.

And further incentivize divorce? It's a dual-headed problem. Much of what has fueled the breakdown of family structure are policies that incentivize women to become single mothers. Children being raised by single mothers is not a good outcome. We need to stop pretending that it is.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#100

Post by ajmurmann »

matthewfelgate wrote: post #78
giantg2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Forcing unhappy people to stay together or get married doesn't help anyone." I largely agree, but the idea of promoting two parent households isn't antithetical to your statement. You could have programs that are meant to ensure that couples get married for the right reasons, with the right skills, etc. It's likely a marriage prep/ed course would result in fewer divorces, just as drivers ed results in better drivers…

You want people to go to marriage school?! Honestly what planet are you living on.

I'm not sure I agree with the parent or not, but there are a few things that I've found incredibly valuable to sustain a successful marriage long term. For example, we have the rule to never go to sleep while angry with each other. Maybe we'll be sitting in separate rooms tired and fuming at 1am, but once heads are cooled off we talk it out and then go to sleep at 2am after both are happy to share a good night kiss. I think this is huge because it prevents anger or frustration to build up and forces it to be resolved at a natural point.
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