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BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

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Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#91

Post by screamingninja »

kevincox wrote: post #72
screamingninja wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your concept is mathematically sound, but if there exists an opportunity to double dip to boost profits, what would make a corporation turn it down? As you noted in case #1, companies are paying much more for the materials. Consumers are still ultimately paying for it. The entire point of amortizing the upfront costs is to keep the consumers hooked by charging a smaller recurring amount that stings less but certainly…

> companies are paying much more for the materials They are paying more for materials but less for manufacturing costs and overhead. The total cost is less. So by your logic consumers are paying less than before. > keep the consumers hooked by charging a smaller recurring amount Yes, I disagree with the subscription model. I am talking more about one time payment for a hardware-locked feature.

> They are paying more for materials but less for manufacturing costs and overhead

I suspect this is a complex, wicked problem. What about the marketing costs, subscription management overhead, and the ensuing PR damage?

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#93

Post by bonestamp2 »

ketralnis wrote: post #86
bonestamp2 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nuanced. If they did not sell the car for a penny more than last years model without heated seats, in other words they put up the money for the heated seat hardware in hopes of recouping that cost (and making their usual profit on it) later, then I don't see why people have a problem with getting the same features for the same price as last year. In fact, as someone who likes to buy lightly used cars, I love th…

None of that is my problem. My belongings belong to me. I don't care if a bean counter somewhere was slightly happier about it before it got to me. The moment the car is my car, it's no longer their car to start charging me access to.

I see your point. I don't have a problem with it personally, but I understand your logic. I guess now that everything is controlled by software, and software is rarely ever owned (mostly licensed) that has started to blur the lines between what we own and what we license.

This kind of thing is common in software where all of the code is there for the premium/business/family/group/team/etc features, but how much you pay determines which features you get access to. In the case of the BMW, the heated seat control only appeared on the screen if you paid $250 for it.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#94

Post by gruez »

lq9AJ8yrfs wrote: post #25
gruez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

The principle is the seller appropriating for themselves a value-driver that was previously part of the consumer surplus, without offering to exchange something of commensurate and enduring or time-series value in proportion to the time series of payments. It reeks of friction and parlor tricks to get you to miscalculate the cost / benefit situation. Compare to a "land grab" or "rent-seeking" behavior. Also compare t…

>The principle is the seller appropriating for themselves a value-driver that was previously part of the consumer surplus

Were heated seats previously free? I don't shop luxury cars, but heated seats on regular cars are definitely a premium trim feature.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#95

Post by gruez »

ryandrake wrote: post #38
gruez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Charging a subscription for hardware and software already built into the car, and not dependent on any external servers or anything is just plain anti-consumer. What's the principle here? That because it already exists, consumers don't have to pay for it? How far can we stretch this? Suppose there's a streaming service (eg. netflix or spotify) that supports downloads, does that it's "anti-consumer" to deny them acce…

Here's the extreme example I always reach for: Imagine BMW decides that it's cheaper for them to just make all 4 seat sedans instead of having some 2 seat models and some 4 seat models. They instead tell customers: "You're buying a 2-seater. You need to pay a $X/month 'sedan fee' to be allowed to sit in the rear seats." Would this be acceptable to many people? Of course not, and for the same reason that subscriptions…

>Would this be acceptable to many people? Of course not

I disagree. This literally happens for CPUs, and people don't seem to get angry at it. There might be different models of CPUs sold that use the same die and come off the same manufacturing line. The only difference is that cores are disabled/fuesd off and/or clock speeds are lowered.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#96

Post by gruez »

thfuran wrote: post #49
gnicholas wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW maintained the one-time purchase option. The subscription was added for people who only wanted to pay intermittently (or who were buying a BMW new, but somehow didn't have the $500 to pay for heated seats upfront).

That there exists an alternative doesn't make the subscription better.

Are you equally upset about the fact that you can get a "subscription" to a car (ie. renting or leasing it) in addition to buying it outright?

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#97

Post by wink »

gumballindie wrote: post #5

BMW in particular, and german carmakers as a whole are in for a rough decade. Declining quality and increasing competition will pose the kind of risks not even eu protectionism can shield them from. One such risk is china. German carmakers desperately need new markets and china is one of them. But germany and the eu cant bully china and they will want access to european markets in return. And what i am reading and he…

Oh no, they're absolutely not. The lobbyists stand ready and the government will continue shoveling money in the general direction of the holy cow. I'd find it funny if it wasn't so sad.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#98

Post by gnicholas »

taylodl wrote: post #88
gnicholas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was actually a little more nuanced — they offered a one-time purchase (at a normal-ish price), or the option to purchase via subscription. I have no problem with this arrangement, which literally offers consumers more choices. The concerns I would have are (1) that the one-time pricing would gradually creep up, so that in a few years it becomes untenable, or (2) that when you sell the car, the heated seats would b…

If I bought the heated seats via a one-time purchase then that feature should transfer to the new owner. It may require that transfer of ownership be registered with BMW. If I rented the heated seats, or hadn't bought or rented the heated seats, then the new buyer should have the option to rent the heated seats or make a one-time purchase to just buy them. This seems pro-consumer to me. I don't want heated seats (no,…

I think the backlash comes from incomplete reporting (and article-skimming, on the part of readers), which led people to think they were replacing the one-time purchase option with a subscription. I think we can all agree that would be bad.

Among more thoughtful folks, there were still concerns that this was a first step toward increased nickel-and-diming. What feature would be subscription-ized next? And would the one-time purchase options silently disappear?

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#99

Post by vleaflet »

gumballindie wrote: post #66
singleshot_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am adjacent to a Mini (bmw manufactured) owner who reported a leaky sunroof to the dealer. Dealer examined the roof and concluded that “the frame has melted and warped” and accordingly the sunroof will always leak. Cost to repair: five thousand dollars. There’s “declining quality,” and then there’s “the roof melts.” I wouldn’t consider buying a bmw for a long, long time.

My former BMW dashboard, the area below the satnav, has something that appears to have melted. It’s not the hard plastic that did it but something that appears to be a coating of some sort. It had a sunroof, and probably that caused it. The rear stopping lights circuits fried somehow, replaced them myself. Apparently water gets in? My porsche 981 had the roof peel off, and the door panels gradually ungluing. More wor…

Was your BMW manufactured in the US? Scott Kilmer gave this advice for American car buyers; make sure the BMW or Mercedes-Benz you're looking for was built in Germany! US versions apparently have terrible quality, not even close to EU standards.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#100

Post by thfuran »

gruez wrote: post #96
thfuran wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That there exists an alternative doesn't make the subscription better.

Are you equally upset about the fact that you can get a "subscription" to a car (ie. renting or leasing it) in addition to buying it outright?

That's not really the same thing, but regardless, the fact that a car can be purchased wouldn't make an expensive lease more attractive.
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