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‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#91

Post by mcphage »

defrost wrote: post #18
fouc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming more and more common for single men to adopt children. But yeah, expect some scrutiny. Otherwise we failed as a society.

HN is a global forum spanning multiple countries and even more societal mores. To your point though, "we" already failed as a society by not sufficienty scrutinising the bulk of adoptions to ostensibly stable 'ideal' families in decades past. A number of these adoptions turned out fine, many did not.

> "we" already failed as a society by not sufficienty scrutinising the bulk of adoptions to ostensibly stable 'ideal' families in decades past

That is correct, and what is trying to be corrected for now.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#92

Post by flangola7 »

mlinhares wrote: post #17

I feel bad for the people that now want to have had children but didn't but as a father of two, if you didn't directly plan to have kids it might have been better that you didn't, kids take a lot of work, you have to be in the right place to do it. I used to be the person that said "yeah, go have kids" and now I'm "only do it if you're completely sure its what you want" because if you're not it's the children sufferi…

This 1000%

I wish my parents had had this wisdom.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#93

Post by flangola7 »

_V_ wrote: post #81
ssanders82 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us. We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.

If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? I'm asking as a person who does not (yet) have kids myself.

> If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it?

Sensitive about it? I don't see where you get that impression from.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#94

Post by alphabettsy »

xyzzy4747 wrote: post #69
basisword wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> kids take a lot of work, you have to be in the right place to do it. I think it's a certain type of personality that believes this. I know somebody who gets worried for certain friends/family having children because they don't own their house or have high paid jobs. They have a laundry list of todo's (mostly financial) before they will even consider having children. It's almost condescending but I choose to see it…

As someone who just had a kid, I agree. You don’t have to overthink it. At the end of the day all they need is a calorie surplus and shelter. That’s it. Everything else is a bonus. As a parent you can put as much or as little work into it as you like. Time is going to pass and they’ll grow older regardless. It’s not like a tech startup where you have to put work in or it’ll crash and burn.

Bad parenting or neglectful often produces bad outcomes does it not?

This is unfortunate to read. Of course everything doesn’t need to be planned, but food and shelter are the bare minimum.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#95

Post by wkat4242 »

MaKey wrote: post #58
bsagdiyev wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure by bt4u's comment is dead, but I've had that exact situation happen to me. Been accused of trying to steal a child while taking my son to the playground. It is an actual thing and it sucks.

Is this an American thing? I can't imagine that happening in Europe, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.

Yeah we're kinda over the traditional family thing here in Europe. I would bet two fathers taking their son to the playground would raise some eyebrows in the US too, depending on the area of course. Whereas here it wouldn't.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#96

Post by tonyedgecombe »

em-bee wrote: post #71
basisword wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation t…

i think the smart thing to do is to have kids when you are 20 and then enjoy life when you are 40. at that time you are much better off financially (unless you live in a country where you have to pay for your kids education maybe) which gives you a lot more freedom to explore your interests.

Looking back I don't think I would have been ready at twenty. Also I couldn't afford a house at the time but could at thirty.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#97

Post by mbg721 »

pertymcpert wrote: post #54
bt4u wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

I've never seen that happen myself, but I have heard of it. My only theory is that it happens in places which are heavily socially/politically conservative and "backwards", where women can't imagine men being an actual real parent.

I live in a flyover state and have never had that sort of thing happen...I actually assumed the opposite, that socially/politically liberal areas would be less accustomed to seeing two-parent households and would be wealthy enough to have busybodies with too much time on their hands.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#98

Post by barrysteve »

alphabettsy wrote: post #84
barrysteve wrote: post #70

And all the warning they get is a random guardian article in the slew of media rain. This society is completely broken. My craving to return to the 1980s and 1990s is just getting worse and worse. We replaced so many functioning structures with an ocean of mirages. I legitmately have not seen an adult man who looks and acts like an authority figure should, in about fifteen years. I literally cannot take 90% of 'autho…

> Society used to be predictable and rational No. It really wasn’t. Read some history books. There was nothing uniquely great about the 80s-90s. Impending global lockdown? You might be well served from a lot less time online and more time with your fellow humans or nature.

Lol. I lived through the 80s and 90s.

I don't need history books and I'm not going to correct you. It's a waste of 'breath' if your intial reaction is that.

It is easy to doubt, doubt is cheap.

When the time comes to say 'I told you so..' I won't want to and you won't want to remember.

Tell me why deaths of despair have jumped up 100k. Then I'll accept your casual dismissiveness. Dismissiveness that is ripe 'online'.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#99

Post by francisofascii »

jokoon wrote: post #44

I'm 38, and I'm socially unable to meet women outside of online dating, I've had enough girlfriend and a long, 8 years relationship (she did not want kids). I don't really understand that social norm of having kids. I can understand sexual desire, but is there really a "desire to have kids"? Is having kids really some kind of moral imperative to "continue the human species"? Anyway, women have high standards, which i…

> is there really a "desire to have kids"

Sometimes the parental instinct or desire activates the moment the kid is born, but is not present before that. It it an interesting phenomenon.

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