Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market • Hacker News Board

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#91

Post by irrational » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #83

paxys wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find the decision to buy lab grown diamonds to be weirder, because if you are already thinking logically rather than emotionally and can resist the social pressure then why waste money on a diamond at all? There are plenty of gems or metals out there that are cheaper, prettier, more rare and hold their value better than diamonds (whether natural or lab grown).

If you like the shininess of diamonds, they're really hard to beat on the "pretty" front. Diamonds have a crazy internal refractive index, which, once exemplified by an appropriate cut, gives them a pretty unique shininess. The only gems that come close are substantially softer, meaning they lose they lose the precise cuts that give them the extra shimmer relatively quickly. Don't enrich Russia by buying mined diamon…

But Moissanite are shinier than diamonds, very nearly as hard, but at a fraction of the price. And nobody can tell the difference without training and possibly a microscope.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#92

Post by sethhochberg » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:24 PM UTC

ChainOfFools wrote: post #76

hutzlibu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference would be, that one was made artificial in a human machine in a lab - and the other by raw natural forces in the wild. There is no practical value in jewelry anyway, it is a status symbol and the context of coming from the wild extracted under wild conditions (and maybe violently, ooh, blood diamonds, how exiting, erm shocking) has of course a higher symbolic value. So a artificial made one would be con…

> artificial in a human machine in a lab - and the other by raw natural forces in the wild What do you suppose is the value that distinguishes these two processes? The story? Or is it the persistence of the naturalistic fallacy, surfacing in all sorts of places and in all kinds of minds including those one would expect are habitually vigilant against what is essentially a generalized form of superstition.

“Artificial” usually isn’t a positive thing when the word comes up. We’re often told to avoid artificial sweeteners, artificially hydrogenated oils, artificially enhanced flavors, artificial dyes and colorants… and that’s just in food and beverage, and totally ignoring the luxury image of natural hardwood instead of wood veneer, natural glass/crystal instead of plastic.

Diamonds are just about the only thing I can think of where artificial and natural are encouraged to be seen as equals. I’m sure some people have a naturalist/spiritual angle, but I’d bet most are simply applying the wisdom of so many other shopping areas to this one.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#93

Post by wlesieutre » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:25 PM UTC

ChainOfFools wrote: post #86

scottiebarnes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

humans are natural, therefore all human creations and processes are natural? so my plastic bottles are naturally grown?

Naturally made, yes. the specific process called "grown" would better apply if there was, say, a plastic bottle-fruiting plant, but whether that plant was designed by humans or simply found by them in the environment does not change whether it is natural. There is no such thing as natural versus unnatural, this dichotomy is a holdover from the time when we believed there was another plane of reality outside or distin…

Would you say soda bottle preforms grow into plastic bottles?

https://www.teachersource.com/product/preforms-and-caps/chem...

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#94

Post by sublinear » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:27 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #31

I wonder what the second-order consequences will be. That is, people will still want to signal their commitment/ability to provide when proposing, so the drop in the price of diamonds won't necessarily reduce the overall outlay. Instead, it would shift the expense to another category (platinum or other expensive metals) or simply lead people to buy more carats (4 is the new 2!). In some ways, these moves could help l…

> people will still want to signal their commitment/ability to provide when proposing

Anyone over about 25 and actually mature enough to commit probably doesn't care that much about the ring as long as it's not literally a funyun.

How about a nice home, a leisurely lifestyle and solid career, an amiable personality, a great social circle, track record of being dependable with family, etc. You know, the things the ring is supposed to actually represent.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#95

Post by Fezzik » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:27 PM UTC

What a great opportunity to re-share one of my favorite articles: https://priceonomics.com/diamonds-are-bullshit/

I really can’t think of an example better than people buying shiny rocks for absurd amounts of money that demonstrates how non-advanced we are, as a society generally.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#96

Post by munificent » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:28 PM UTC

ChainOfFools wrote: post #76

hutzlibu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference would be, that one was made artificial in a human machine in a lab - and the other by raw natural forces in the wild. There is no practical value in jewelry anyway, it is a status symbol and the context of coming from the wild extracted under wild conditions (and maybe violently, ooh, blood diamonds, how exiting, erm shocking) has of course a higher symbolic value. So a artificial made one would be con…

> artificial in a human machine in a lab - and the other by raw natural forces in the wild What do you suppose is the value that distinguishes these two processes? The story? Or is it the persistence of the naturalistic fallacy, surfacing in all sorts of places and in all kinds of minds including those one would expect are habitually vigilant against what is essentially a generalized form of superstition.

> What do you suppose is the value that distinguishes these two processes? The story?

Of course it is the story. The value in everything is the meaning we attach to it, not the thing itself.

With a natural diamond, it's the idea that you have a unique artifact formed over millions of years, an irreplaceable corner of the Earth and its history owned by you and you alone, which then suggests that you yourself have a certain uniqueness and irreplaceability.

You can argue that people should not choose that particular story and that particular meaning, but that's a moral argument, and not an argument about the object itself. (And if you choose to make that argument, I would first suggest introspecting over how much of your own stories and meaning are as arbitrary as that one.)

I don't care a bit for natural diamonds, but I have infinite respect for the stories and meaning people choose to embue their lives with. Ultimately, it's all we have.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#97

Post by irrational » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:28 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #89

irrational wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purchased a 1 carat diamond ring for my now-wife in the mid-1990s for $600. For our 25th wedding anniversary my wife and I designed a new solid gold ring using Moissanite stones that cost about $700. She loves her new ring and everyone thinks the stones are real diamonds. We've even had jewelers comment on her diamond ring. I truly don't understand why anyone would go with diamonds these days.

Where did you get the stones, and did the jeweler who built the new ring care at all?

We had it made in China. There are a number of online chinese jewelers. They will work with you to make the ring to your exact specifications. They will create a 3D rendering of the ring for your approval. They will let you pick out the stones you want. After it is manufactured, they will create a video showing the ring (or earrings or whatever) to you for approval before shipping it to you. I figured that for $700 we could risk it, but it turned out to be a gorgeous ring and we have had zero complaints about it in the 4 years since we received it. It is rock solid (pun intended) and as pretty today as the day she first put it on.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#98

Post by conductr » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #81

TacticalCoder wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the rest but... > Diamonds are effectively worthless the moment they leave the store That's not the case! You can have the stone removed from the ring and, in case you don't have the original certificate, sent to a certification authority (like GIA) to have it graded. I think it also, once graded, gets automatically laser-engraved (above a certain carat) but I'm not sure about that: maybe you need to pay…

> I think it's mandatory that every lab-grown diamond above a certain carat are laser-engraved https://www.gemsociety.org/article/lab-grown-diamonds-faq : “Many lab-made diamonds have an inscription that identifies them as lab-made. Diamonds can also have a lab report number inscribed on the girdle” I think it’s very likely that, If that “above a certain carat” were true, that page would have mentioned it. I also can…

Because the GEM Society is a business that wants to 1) continue grading diamonds and 2) begin cataloging lab diamonds. Both of which are revenue sources.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#99

Post by sublinear » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

threadweaver34 wrote: post #26

vsskanth wrote: post #3

It's been a while since I've seen someone wearing a diamond ornament

As a single guy, I'm checking the ladies' hands for rings all the time.

My experience has been that you just don't see people wearing wedding bands all that often anymore. They're inconvenient and unfashionable. Marriage is as unpopular as ever and only the most conservative areas actually care about marital status.

Re: Diamond prices are in free fall in one key corner of the market

#100

Post by ChainOfFools » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #96

ChainOfFools wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> artificial in a human machine in a lab - and the other by raw natural forces in the wild What do you suppose is the value that distinguishes these two processes? The story? Or is it the persistence of the naturalistic fallacy, surfacing in all sorts of places and in all kinds of minds including those one would expect are habitually vigilant against what is essentially a generalized form of superstition.

> What do you suppose is the value that distinguishes these two processes? The story? Of course it is the story. The value in everything is the meaning we attach to it, not the thing itself. With a natural diamond, it's the idea that you have a unique artifact formed over millions of years, an irreplaceable corner of the Earth and its history owned by you and you alone, which then suggests that you yourself have a ce…

I don't argue that stories are very important, and they are in fact the only thing we have. But that does not make themselves Justified categorically.

In fact my username, chain of fools, is the title of a song whose lyrics, although very brief, are very much about believing stories told with the motivation to do harm - or at very least to deprive others of something valuable so that the teller can have that same something cheaply.