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Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

theguardian.com

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Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#91

Post by Falkon1313 »

anolog0 wrote: post #9

Why is it that every time this moral panic is written about, there are no solid studies to back it up? Surely, if there was really a society-wide epidemic of focus, there would be some clear metric for focus which researchers would have 20-30 years of data and studies on, right? This should be a very testable hypothesis, so where is all the hard science on it? Even in this article, the author just takes some statemen…

IIRC, "The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains" had sources at the back. My copy is packed away and it's been awhile since I read it, so I could be wrong, but that's another that you might consider.

"Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community" is about a different topic - disconnection from community and social interactions that we used to have, but it's an overlapping topic. It has lots of data and graphs.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#92

Post by WalterBright »

jasona99 wrote: post #80
WalterBright wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> move Allow me to point out the millions of immigrants that walk across a continent to try and slip over the border into America. The ones that make it rarely have more than the clothes on their back. Yet they moved away from a bad situation to a better one, and have made it to every corner of the country. > but that there are systemic problems preventing these people from being able to take these steps. Nobody ther…

> Allow me to point out the millions of immigrants that walk across a continent to try and slip over the border into America. Sure, but even when they get to America, unless they already have some degree of monetary means, a large portion of those immigrants will end up stuck in low-paying, high-labor jobs, often in agriculture and heavy industry, without savings or means to move elsewhere for years. Those paths to b…

I made the acquaintance of an Afghan refugee who got out with nothing but his skin a couple years ago. He was operating a thriving car service. I had little doubt he'd be a millionaire soon.

> this is not their fault for simply being born in an area

I never said it was their fault for where they were born. But once they are legal adults, they can move.

> especially to a higher cost of living area

Seattle being a high cost of living has completely failed at preventing thousands of homeless people from arriving.

> or means to move elsewhere

They had zero means to move here other than their feet. They can move elsewhere.

> or that it is systemically hard for an immigrant to rise out of poverty in America?

If people constantly tell them they cannot, quite a few will believe it. Have you ever done anything that everyone told you you could not do?

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#93

Post by stevage »

NavinF wrote: post #69
stevage wrote: post #67

A pity it didn't get specific at all about the mechanisms that steal focus. And even though cold turkey detox is not a viable solution, there are things individuals can do that help. Like disabling notifications for absolutely everything except messages from a small number of people.

> disabling notifications for absolutely everything except messages from a small number of people Doesn't everyone do this? Maybe that's why I find articles like this so confusing

From my experience, the vast majority of people do not. In our rarefied circles, quite a few people do.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#94

Post by MrVandemar »

WalterBright wrote: post #92
jasona99 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allow me to point out the millions of immigrants that walk across a continent to try and slip over the border into America. Sure, but even when they get to America, unless they already have some degree of monetary means, a large portion of those immigrants will end up stuck in low-paying, high-labor jobs, often in agriculture and heavy industry, without savings or means to move elsewhere for years. Those paths to b…

I made the acquaintance of an Afghan refugee who got out with nothing but his skin a couple years ago. He was operating a thriving car service. I had little doubt he'd be a millionaire soon. > this is not their fault for simply being born in an area I never said it was their fault for where they were born. But once they are legal adults, they can move. > especially to a higher cost of living area Seattle being a high…

> I made the acquaintance of an Afghan refugee who got out with nothing but his skin a couple years ago. He was operating a thriving car service. I had little doubt he'd be a millionaire soon.

A bit too "n = 1" there. What do the statistics of Afghan immigrants in your country in general show? Do they support your overall argument?

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#95

Post by WalterBright »

MrVandemar wrote: post #94
WalterBright wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made the acquaintance of an Afghan refugee who got out with nothing but his skin a couple years ago. He was operating a thriving car service. I had little doubt he'd be a millionaire soon. > this is not their fault for simply being born in an area I never said it was their fault for where they were born. But once they are legal adults, they can move. > especially to a higher cost of living area Seattle being a high…

> I made the acquaintance of an Afghan refugee who got out with nothing but his skin a couple years ago. He was operating a thriving car service. I had little doubt he'd be a millionaire soon. A bit too "n = 1" there. What do the statistics of Afghan immigrants in your country in general show? Do they support your overall argument?

I know two others, from two other countries, who came here with nothing but a suitcase and are now millionaires.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#96

Post by RoyalHenOil »

WalterBright wrote: post #78
RoyalHenOil wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans have a limited amount of willpower. The average person can handle addressing a couple of these issues, but some people (especially the poor and the ill) have so many simultaneous issues that their willpower is too divided for them to make meaningful headway.

> ill I usually preface my comments on this topic with legal adults of sound mind and body. > poor The millions walking over the border have nothing, but they see opportunity in the US.

I think you have a quite limited understanding of the funds and planning that go into crossing the border, and also how effectively people who make that crossing solve other issues in their lives.

My brother-in-law's family crossed the border illegally out of dire necessity. However, they still have many others issues (managing money, working for awful bosses, living in crappy housing, family in-fighting, unhappy marriage, etc.) that they have struggled to fix. Some of these issues are so bad that it has led my brother-in-law to distance himself from some of them.

So yes, they did a really hard thing to solve an extremely pressing problem, but it does not mean they have solved all of their problems. There is only so much one person can do to fix their life when there are many things wrong with it. They can usually only prioritize a couple of things.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#97

Post by taberiand »

ipaddr wrote: post #84
thenerdhead wrote: post #77

I really enjoyed Stolen Focus. But that's because I wrote a similar book the same year. Some of the most thought-provoking resources on this topic in my opinion are: - Amusing Ourselves to Death - Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television - The Century of the Self - The Shallows - The Attention Merchants - Much of William James philosophy If anyone wants a copy of my book "Enough. Seeking less in a world of mo…

I would but I'm trying to cutdown on attention stealing devices. It's ironic that you are trying to steal focus in order to tell others about how their focus has been stolen.

It's only stealing if something of value isn't being provided in return

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#98

Post by wslh »

thombles wrote: post #22

Stolen Focus is an interesting book and worth your time, but it's absolutely set on making the case that governments need to intervene on social media and I don't think it did it very well. I wrote a longish review digging into why back in June but it will probably only make complete sense if you've read the book. https://thomask.sdf.org/blog/2023/06/08/book-review-stolen-f...

The problem is that, in general, governments are also stealing your focus to non central issues and hide the core issues.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#99

Post by Gunax »

Terr_ wrote: post #41
Gunax wrote: post #11

I think it's a thoughtful tale, but I really cannot get behind the premise. Was our attention really stolen ? Is this a literal claim, or just hyperbole? It's a vice of the modern world. We have made food that tastes wo good, you want to eat forever. We have drugs which give you euphoria (for a time). And, we have entertainment that is far better than before. Well, for one I don't think there is anything particularly…

> Was our attention really stolen? Is this a literal claim, or just hyperbole? It's obviously figurative... unless you believe Professor MindMiner has built a machine to *schlorp* liquidified Attention out of unsuspecting victims into his own swollen and increasingly-monomaniacal cranium. However it's much shorter than "impaired or damaged without our informed consent by outside forces because it profits them to do s…

Well, that's funny. But I take it to mean that it was intentionally made addictive, rather than just being enjoyable.

By analogy, some people say that food is being made addictive. But I think there is a dubious difference between an addictive hamburger and just a tasty hamburger.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#100

Post by smogcutter »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #43
smogcutter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN: what, no research? Also HN: social science research is garbage and everyone who practices it is somewhere on a spectrum between delusion and fraud

It's almost as if HN isn't a monoculture.

I’ll need to see some research backing that up
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