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The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

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Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#91

Post by panick21_ »

JBiserkov wrote: post #17
panick21_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its almost as if complex social and economic systems aren't magic and you can't just yell 'capitalism' and turn into the Belgium. Its almost as if just talking about complex social and economic system as a binary isn't a smart thing to do.

Yeah, to turn it into Belgium, first you have to enslave and genocide people in Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_S...

Except you don't. Belgium the country had a parliament that limited the king and was doing well outside of whatever happened in Congo. Congo was given to the King of Belgium as private property basically, not the government of Belgium.

While some of Belgium population did profit from it, the argument that all of Belgium current wealth is whole depend on the Congo is complete nonsense.

Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#92

Post by raincom »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #86
raincom wrote: post #74

Europe's Cocaine Tsunami[0], a documentary by VICE, is about Albanian Mafia and Columbian clan del gulfo. Here, you can hear about how Albanians in UK are 'enslaved' by Albanian mafia families, and how many young Albanians from Northern Albania leave to work in the cocaine field. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTOwZxRT5Qc

Not available in my (EU) country. Are you aware of any other links to this? I’m interested but a quick google showed nothing

Maybe, try this format: https://www.youtube.com/v/kTOwZxRT5Qc

Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#93

Post by tristor »

user3939382 wrote: post #75
tristor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are political trends on HN but they don't necessarily fit neatly into left/right, especially given that defining those terms is extremely problematic in the first place. That’s because politics has two axises. HN is definitely left-leaning, but in support of social democracy. Hacker News is first and foremost populated by /hackers/ and we don’t go for authoritarianism. We know that as left-leaning as we are,…

> HN is definitely left-leaning As I was saying, defining "left" is problematic, different people mean different things by that term. To me, left means anti-establishment, anti-censorship, pro free speech, anti war. I see tons of people on here defending censorship of social media ("they're private corporations"), pro Ukraine war. I see much less defense of the women's rights movement on HN than I traditionally assoc…

Your definition of left is based on a set of issues, not on philosophy, which is not how such things are defined and thus is erroneous. There is two axes, so left/right is definitely oversimplification but it is very clearly defined.

Left/Right is split on economics, almost entirely, and specifically on the topic of private property vs public property and where the line is drawn, inclusive of many things besides real estate that count as “property”. Philosophically it is a split between Collectivism and Individualism, and almost all conflicts revolve around duty to self vs duty to society.

There are very left-wing political movements in history, including arguably the most “successful” and powerful that were pro-censorship, against free speech, and explicitly warmongering. “Anti-establishment” is a meaningless term, whoever is currently in power is the “establishment”, regardless of anything else.

HN is far more left than the typical viewpoint in the US, which is the country that dominates discussion here. The US has no true left-wing major party, but the closest thing we have (neoliberal globalists with collectivist views on social responsibility) is not only the party currently in power, but arguably put there by significant financial support from individuals and companies in tech.

You can take that or interpret that however you want, I’m agreeing with the GP to my original comment.

Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#94

Post by user3939382 »

tristor wrote: post #93
user3939382 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN is definitely left-leaning As I was saying, defining "left" is problematic, different people mean different things by that term. To me, left means anti-establishment, anti-censorship, pro free speech, anti war. I see tons of people on here defending censorship of social media ("they're private corporations"), pro Ukraine war. I see much less defense of the women's rights movement on HN than I traditionally assoc…

Your definition of left is based on a set of issues, not on philosophy, which is not how such things are defined and thus is erroneous. There is two axes, so left/right is definitely oversimplification but it is very clearly defined. Left/Right is split on economics, almost entirely, and specifically on the topic of private property vs public property and where the line is drawn, inclusive of many things besides real…

> There is two axes

I’m sorry but this is just wrong, the issues are not that simple. The parties have huge internal divisions and so many Americans don’t vote precisely because that’s not true. The issues are based on philosophies, you’re drawing a distinction that has no significance to the point.

> Collectivism and Individualism

No that is not the only way all major issues are divided. And even where they are, there are policy nuances that may align with both and be rolled into a single solution.

I already explained how HN is on major issues not left. I’m not going to repeat it. To say “those are just issues” doesn’t make HN left when it’s advocating positions from the right.

Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#95

Post by d1sxeyes »

raincom wrote: post #92
d1sxeyes wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not available in my (EU) country. Are you aware of any other links to this? I’m interested but a quick google showed nothing

Maybe, try this format: https://www.youtube.com/v/kTOwZxRT5Qc

Still the same. Thanks, I'll try and find it somewhere, I think it seems like an interesting watch.

Re: The Albanian town that TikTok emptied

#96

Post by tristor »

user3939382 wrote: post #94
tristor wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition of left is based on a set of issues, not on philosophy, which is not how such things are defined and thus is erroneous. There is two axes, so left/right is definitely oversimplification but it is very clearly defined. Left/Right is split on economics, almost entirely, and specifically on the topic of private property vs public property and where the line is drawn, inclusive of many things besides real…

> There is two axes I’m sorry but this is just wrong, the issues are not that simple. The parties have huge internal divisions and so many Americans don’t vote precisely because that’s not true. The issues are based on philosophies, you’re drawing a distinction that has no significance to the point. > Collectivism and Individualism No that is not the only way all major issues are divided. And even where they are, the…

> > There is two axes

> I’m sorry but this is just wrong, the issues are not that simple.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I wrote. I am very clearly acknowledging the complexity of political philosophy, which is why there are two axes, not a single line. There is not just Left/Right, but the Authoritarian/Libertarian axis. Political philosophies can be identified as a coordinate on a two-dimensional plane in relation to one another. https://www.politicalcompass.org/ is one attempt to do so (however not necessarily conclusively correct).

> > Collectivism and Individualism

> No that is not the only way all major issues are divided.

All political philosophies fundamentally reduce to whether they derive primacy for the individual or for society. Of course, all strike some balance between the two, and there are significant nuances, but if you do not recognize this, I would argue you do not have the necessary base knowledge of political philosophy to engage in this conversation, certainly not to assert that I am incorrect.

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