I'd Love to Move, but I Can't • Hacker News Board

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#91

Post by illumin8 » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:16 PM UTC

asolove wrote: post #4

tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the id…

I hate to tell you this, but doing all the right things up through college doesn't entitle you to a guaranteed job upon graduation. You still have to pull yourself up from your bootstraps, pound the pavement (figuratively), and get your first job or internship, start at the bottom of the corporate ladder, live in a 1 bedroom apartment on ramen noodles or beans and rice, and work your way up based on the merits of your work.

To be honest, every generation has had to do this, including the baby boomers. Getting a high paid manufacturing job with a pension and benefits right out of high school is a myth as far as I'm concerned, because it only happened for a few years in a few towns that happened to have factories in them.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#92

Post by kstrauser » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:20 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #18

tmh88j wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The majority of people do not want to be entrepreneurs so their only option is to work for someone else where you are faced with more external forces. When you're in that situation, most people want to do the minimum and earn the maximum which we know rarely works. Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It'…

Small business (or as call it "cottage industry") was the way many people survived in cities before the industrial revolution hit it stride. I don't believe its beyond the capabilities of mere mortals today to do. What people dislike about entrepreneurship is the search for something to sell to people. On the otherhand, many would prefer working for themselves if it could pay, and they had a clearly defined role to s…

During the depression, I had a grand-uncle who went from farm to farm offering to squeeze the farmers' dogs' anal glands for a nickel (or some other tiny amount). It wasn't glamorous but it paid for food.

There's always some kind of work to be done for those willing and able to identify a market.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#93

Post by jiggy2011 » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:20 PM UTC

tmh88j wrote: post #82

jiggy2011 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between pre-industrial and now is that you now not only have to find a product/service to sell but you have to find something that the large wallmart style corporations can't do quicker, better and cheaper than you can. Even small software companies now have the risk of Apple etc completely removing their distribution channel on a whim or a larger software company (or open source project) just replicat…

>a larger software company (or open source project) just replicating their entire product. Agreed for products that are specific service, but if your product is driven by a users(facebook and twitter for example), it's damn near impossible for other companies to push you out of the way and achieve the same results once you reach a large enough user base. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, especially between generation…

Therein lies roughly the same problem though. It's not really practical for anybody to start a new social network unless you think you can compete with the likes of facebook / google+ etc.

It's a go big or go home type game and requires a fair amount of risk. It's not really a career choice in the same way as doing a trade would be.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#94

Post by ArtB » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

jdludlow wrote: post #67

GFischer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from South America, I'm amazed that in the U.S. you're out of health coverage if you're not employed. Other safety nets are counterproductive, though. My country has very high firing costs, which means less jobs, and job security is very highly tied to years in the job, so in my case, leaving my dead-end but decently paid job for a better job is a very significant gamble (I basically give up all my unemplo…

As someone from South America, I'm amazed that in the U.S. you're out of health coverage if you're not employed. You're not. The tax structure encourages this kind of behavior, but the day I quit my job 5 years ago I started cutting a check for my own health insurance. If people actually looked into the cost of catastrophic coverage with a high deductible (the point of "insurance" in the first place), they'd see that…

I think there is something wrong with a society where you need above average intelligence, responsibility, and impulse control to avoid that pit-trap.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#95

Post by devs1010 » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

gryzzly wrote: post #48

A good advice to "20 years old" who can't move – learn JavaScript. You will be able to move to just about any place. Esp. if you are an american citizen. Within the US, to Canada or Europe, or Thailand, or any other place.

At first I thought "why JavaScript" (and not any of the other web programming languages) but I realized this does make some sense as nearly all web apps nowadays use JavaScript whereas the other backend languages are more fractured. Of course, its better to learn some other languages too, but some of the new JS frameworks are awesome and it looks like demand is only going to increase for dev's with this skill

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#96

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:22 PM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #74

pavel_lishin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get from pretty much anywhere in the US to anywhere else for under $500. Unless you need to break the lease on your apartment, which is typically two months' rent - which typically tacks on another $1000, minimum.

If you are unemployed and just out of college you're living at home, not in an apartment.

You might be holding down a part time job while in college, and using that money to pay for your apartment. In that case, of course, you may be able to wait for your lease to be over - hopefully you timed it to close to your graduation date.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#97

Post by clarebear » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:29 PM UTC

jdludlow wrote: post #69

jandrewrogers wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There is a large segment of the American population that cannot fathom living a life not based on gross consumerism. It is a crippling behavior when you have little income and are just starting out because it prevents you from accumulating the savings required for economic flexibility. When I was in my 20s and poor, I think the most I ever spent on drinking glasses in total was a few dollars, and I moved many t…

Amen. The trait of rich people that I try to emulate (not always successfully) is that they tend to purchase assets that appreciate in value. Toys are paid for with highly disposable money and not the nest egg. The trait of poor people that I try to avoid is purchasing depreciating assets, usually on credit ensuring that you'll be poor until that lotto ticket hits big (i.e. forever).

What can a normal person buy right now that appreciates in value at any reasonable rate? Not savings accounts, not stocks (on average), not houses... Most of us don't have the money or connections to invest anything other than some time in hits-driven businesses like startups.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#98

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:30 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #85

jdludlow wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. The trait of rich people that I try to emulate (not always successfully) is that they tend to purchase assets that appreciate in value. Toys are paid for with highly disposable money and not the nest egg. The trait of poor people that I try to avoid is purchasing depreciating assets, usually on credit ensuring that you'll be poor until that lotto ticket hits big (i.e. forever).

Isn't this pretty hard? Most assets depreciate. Here's a non-exhaustive list: furniture, kitchen supplies, food, electronics, and vehicles. It seems like it'd be hard if you're poor to avoid having a large chunk of your income go towards things that depreciate immediately you touch them.

[deleted]

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#99

Post by scarmig » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:31 PM UTC

I love that we simultaneously have a heap of victim blaming that

(a) they need to develop their professional networks more and (b) they just need to man up and move to South Dakota.

Before you start commenting with an easy solution, you should stop and think: if everyone did this, what would happen?

In the case of everyone networking better, it would simply recreate the current situation but biased towards those who are inherently better at networking. Well-written resumes aren't themselves valuable: they work as a signal of someone standing out from the crowd. But if everyone does that, it just shifts the equilibrium.

In the case of everyone moving to South Dakota, you'd end up with an unemployment rate of 30% in South Dakota. More than that, even: the number of unemployed in California is currently 2 million, which is more than double South Dakota's total population, let alone workforce, even ignoring the heap of infrastructure issues and mass destruction of social capital that would be involved in that kind of movement.

Instead, look at issues of public choice, broken institutions, and the system as a whole. Do not bother trying to blame (or excuse, for that matter) the individuals involved, unless what you're interested in is furthering a persona of being a hard-ass concerned with individual responsibility and tough love (or, on the other side, a persona of someone who is exceptionally sympathetic and caring toward others). Because whatever state individuals are in now as a result of their choices, as a whole those same individuals, made of the same stock and character and making the same general choices, were better off 6 years ago. What's changed, and how can we reverse or modulate it to improve overall outcomes?

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#100

Post by hnal943 » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 5:40 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #20

csomar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would stop from applying after the 10th time. If you failed to get a job in 3-4 applications, something is wrong about your CV, presentation, or you. There is something wrong, it's your responsibility to fix it and try again. Personally, I won't say to a candidate you SUCK or you did that thing the wrong way. I'll just apologize that another candidate took the position. Advice from someone who was there: Go and bui…

I must have rewritten my CV countless times during my job hunt at that point as well as having many people proof read it with me, I'm sure it was never perfect but I can be fairly confident that it was better put together than the majority of CVs floating around from unemployed people at the time. Regarding presentation, I was always washed, wore the best suit I could afford and paid attention to body language what I…

Your posts on this thread read like you are living in an Ayn Rand Dystopia. Nearly everyone around you works for the government? You are too dependent on government benefits to start a business? Your hope is that at some point the cost of living will be cheap enough that most people can live comfortably on welfare? There is such a dis-incentive to creating companies and jobs that even a motivated, well-spoken developer can't find a company that is hiring within any reasonable distance?

If it's really as you say, perhaps a "safety net" is the last thing this "stuck" generation needs.