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Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#91

Post by sainez »

abtinf wrote: post #51
gizmo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people keep making this argument? It's a terrible argument. BMI and body fat are extremely strongly correlated. People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. And people with a very low BMI are almost all underweight. BMI is a very simple, easy to calculate and useful metric. It works across countries and across time. BMI is just one metric. It doesn't tell you everything and knowing only the BMI…

> People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. That is tautological - obesity is defined in terms of BMI. BMI over 30 is obese. Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" and weighed 235lbs at contest (30.2 BMI) and 260lbs in the off season (33.4 BMI). So much for your "all" claim.

A lot of people are pointing out Arnold as your example, but fail to mention he first won the Mr Olympia more than 50 years ago! Our understanding of exercise and nutrition has improved since those times. You no longer have to be an outlier in genetics or dedication to achieve good results.

I'm far from a genetic outlier, but I go to the gym for 3-4 60-90 minute sessions a week. My program is efficient, I don't take steroids, and my nutrition is decent (but not great). I'm 5'10" and 202 pounds (29 BMI).

I find it disingenuous that people use the top performers as an excuse. There is a middle ground where a modest investment will reap significant returns.

If maintaining the healthy function of my body is skewing my BMI as to be useless, then perhaps BMI is a poor metric.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#92

Post by onco »

tedchs wrote: post #4

IMHO, anything to do with Body Mass Index (BMI) is fake science. Ironically, this writeup is also from nih.gov: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930234/

Clarification unrelated to the BMI comment, but the writeup isn't from nih.gov. The article is found through PubMed, a search engine and data repository. Your article was published in the 'British Journal of General Practice'. OP's article is from 'Cureus'. PubMed just has copies of the articles.

Saying its ironic that nih.gov has both articles is somewhat like saying its ironic that Google has any two articles.

Disclaimer directly from the linked webpages: "As a library, NLM provides access to scientific literature. Inclusion in an NLM database does not imply endorsement of, or agreement with, the contents by NLM or the National Institutes of Health. Learn more about our disclaimer."

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#93

Post by mcculley »

barrell wrote: post #59
wombat-man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah... but the likelihood that you have a high BMI because you're just so jacked is low. It's not perfect, but it's a good metric.

Most people you see at a gym will probably be classified as 'overweight'. The fact of the matter is muscle is counted against you in BMI, and it takes very little to cross into the 'overweight' threshold. I would have to cut down to around 12% or lower body fat to be considered 'healthy', and I'm far from jacked. 1. Being sub 12% body fat (the highest BMI that would be considered healthy) is arguably unhealthy in and…

> Being sub 12% body fat (…) is arguably unhealthy in and of its own

How so? A couple years ago I was at 10% and running a ½ marathon three times a week. I felt pretty healthy.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#94

Post by scarby2 »

wombat-man wrote: post #45
jncfhnb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not a good metric. It’s incredibly noisy. “Are you fat” isn’t something that needs a noisy metric. And it makes analyses messy when bmi is used as a measure of fatness.

Are you maybe hoping for a metric of general healthiness? Measuring body fat accurately on your own is tough. Most people know their height and can find a scale to use so you can get a rough idea of what bucket you're in. It's good for most people. If you're working out and pretty athletic idk why you'd stress about your bmi being a little high.

sadly it's often misused. When there are things like BMI qualifications on medical interventions or where jobs have physical requirements.

I knew a guy who really wanted to join the fire service but couldn't meet the BMI requirements as he was in the 'obese' BMI bucket, In this case he was just very broad and very muscular (built like the colloquial brick shithouse). By their requirements jonah lomu would not have been able to join because he was 'obese'

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#95

Post by gizmo »

abtinf wrote: post #51
gizmo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people keep making this argument? It's a terrible argument. BMI and body fat are extremely strongly correlated. People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. And people with a very low BMI are almost all underweight. BMI is a very simple, easy to calculate and useful metric. It works across countries and across time. BMI is just one metric. It doesn't tell you everything and knowing only the BMI…

> People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. That is tautological - obesity is defined in terms of BMI. BMI over 30 is obese. Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" and weighed 235lbs at contest (30.2 BMI) and 260lbs in the off season (33.4 BMI). So much for your "all" claim.

Severe obesity is 40+ BMI. About 1 in 16 children and adolescents ages 2 to 19 (6.1%) have severe obesity, according to niddk.nih.gov. It's a staggeringly high percentage of the population.

Even when you take a 1 in 5 billion outlier like Arnold he still doesn't come close to crossing this threshold, despite his high calorie body-builder diet.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#96

Post by sainez »

daneel_w wrote: post #32

Would be interesting to see another study with people who do both breakfast skipping and skipping late-night eating. When I was in my 30s I was a typical woefully sedentary "IT potato" with more than a few extra kilograms around the waist, but today in my early 40s I manage to stay slim and free from diabetes despite being just as sedentary, and I'm convinced that my intermittent fasting is contributing to it: These…

Congrats on the weight loss!

I think the connection between intermittent fasting and BMI is already well understood: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6832593/. In addition, I frequently see incredible transformations on the IF subreddit. From an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense that our bodies were not designed to be consuming calories every waking hour.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#97

Post by wombat-man »

Kirby64 wrote: post #86
wombat-man wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm 'overweight'. I run a lot and generally in pretty good shape. But I could absolutely lose 10-20 lbs of fat. Just because you're a little overweight doesn't mean you're unhealthy.

If you could lose 10-20 lbs of fat (and don't just mean, you have 10-20 lbs of fat left), then tautologically it would be healthier if you did lose the weight. The degree to which it makes you healthier is debatable, but that extra weight isn't making you more healthy (outside of people that are very underweight).

Sure, it's not an emergency but I try to eat better.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#98

Post by deprecative »

howeyc wrote: post #30
dhx wrote: post #25

No control group? No comparison across different demographic groups and countries? (for example, different food types being consumed at different times of the day) No definition of what time and energy intake constitutes "late eating"? (see [1] for an example study that did define "late eating") [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2006.17

They defined late as 2 hours before bed. No consistency of when bed is across the group. Breakfast was 5am to 10am. Looks like no control over food intake. For all we know, breakfast skippers might eat 2lbs of sugar for lunch in this study.

My guess would be that it's people drinking diet soda, salad dressing, sugar+cream in their twenty coffees before lunch, and/or bread. It's entirely based on my experience with folks at the office. I, myself, don't eat breakfast for anxiety / gallbladder removal reasons (I also don't eat lunch when I'm not at/close to home for it), and my fat ass is from a horrid soda addiction as a kid.

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#99

Post by retzkek »

avgcorrection wrote: post #50

Where did the apparent baseline hypothesis that breakfast skipping was bad originate from? They even use it as a keyword. Why is breakfast so holy?

As usual, it's from people pushing their beliefs and/or their products on the public to serve their own purposes; further, as with so many modern ills, we can put some of the blame on Edward Bernays.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/28/breakfa...

Re: Effect of Breakfast Skipping and Late Night Eating on BMI with Type 2 Diabetes

#100

Post by ilyt »

abtinf wrote: post #51
gizmo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people keep making this argument? It's a terrible argument. BMI and body fat are extremely strongly correlated. People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. And people with a very low BMI are almost all underweight. BMI is a very simple, easy to calculate and useful metric. It works across countries and across time. BMI is just one metric. It doesn't tell you everything and knowing only the BMI…

> People with a very high BMI are all obese or morbidly obese. That is tautological - obesity is defined in terms of BMI. BMI over 30 is obese. Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" and weighed 235lbs at contest (30.2 BMI) and 260lbs in the off season (33.4 BMI). So much for your "all" claim.

Well, thankfully people in real life have eyes and brain and can seee that someone is just a heavy pile of muscle vs donut cosplayer, i.e can spot the 0.1% of muscle mass builders from the 99.9% of fatsos.

"A metric have 0.1% outliers so it is bad metric" is a horrible take

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