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We are all animals at night

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Re: We are all animals at night

#91

Post by lmm »

ianai wrote: post #28

This is very well written and gripping even. I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her clients and years worked. That’s an absolute right for all of us, right? To simply relate the experiences we’ve had. She’s definitely seen a side of humanity that, while seen by many, doesn’t quite often get public visibility-sunlight. And lo and behold, it’s…

> I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her clients and years worked. That’s an absolute right for all of us, right? To simply relate the experiences we’ve had.

She's not "simply relating experiences" though. She goes beyond that, turning them into a general sociopolitical claim:

> Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit off something that men have been told they’re entitled to for free: sex and attention in equal parts.

Re: We are all animals at night

#92

Post by yieldcrv »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #40

I feel like I'm missing some cultural context here that made this a semi- difficult read: obviously? the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? but can someone explain to me exactly what the nature of the arrangement/work/ business she's working in is? is it just prostitution and for some reason they don't call it that in Canad…

yeah that bothered me too and I was hoping it got better a few more sentences in

there are places to get massages that aren’t sex work so using euphamisms as both to placate a cultural appetite and coping mechanism is odd and needlessly confusing.

I’m halfway through the article like “is this another sex worker that can’t acknowledge what they do in plain English, while the rest of us are supposed to repeat ‘sex work is work’ for the labor rights along with the ironic convenience that will come with it, or is this a place to get a massage“

Re: We are all animals at night

#93

Post by simple-thoughts »

kdmccormick wrote: post #80
Exoristos wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dues it surprise you that there are people on HN who have gone without food or proper shelter?

Not at all! It would surprise me if someone had gone without food and shelter and then insisted that self-actualization was more important to them when they were cold and hungry.

Limited shelter plus forced fasting is a way to achieve self actualization, learning both the limits of your body and discipline. Only to a degree, too much and you’re physically injured perhaps permanently.

Re: We are all animals at night

#94

Post by jakeinspace »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #81

Let's get this straight. The person blessed with what is basically a panhandling superpower -- an attractive female body -- somehow says her marks , the ones paying $80, have an entitled attitude toward sexual attention. Pause and think about that. Do you think these guys had a Plan B to buy them an English degree? These places conduct zero-sum economic activity. One person loses money, one person gains money, and no…

I guess art, music, professional sports, and fine dining are all essentially zero-sum and useless as well then? What tangible benefit does a museum visitor get for their ticket?

I presume your job must be much more important for the good of society than sex work.

Re: We are all animals at night

#95

Post by qup »

selestify wrote: post #87
throwanem wrote: post #69

> I felt little of the camaraderie I once did while working night shifts. I’m unsure why I felt this dissonance, and it occurs to me now that it could have been more self-imposed than anything. I doubt it. I've worked days and nights at different times in the same place, at a couple of jobs in different parts of the country. There's a real difference between what people are like in the daytime and nighttime worlds, a…

What do you think causes this difference?

The kind of people who are out at night; the kind of activities that are available; the kind of places that are open.

Re: We are all animals at night

#96

Post by ses1984 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #55

Beautifully written, even if I don’t necessarily agree with every single point made. Especially towards the end, I feel that she tries to emphasize the nobility and radical nature of this work, taking umbrage at Eric Adam’s use of the word “low-skill” to describe some of these sorts of jobs. But it seems somewhat belied by the fact that, afaict, as soon as she had the means to escape, she did. And the romanticization…

The author didn’t assert that sex work is the only job where women get to call the shots. The author suggested that could be a reason why it’s marginalized. Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots.

Re: We are all animals at night

#97

Post by j-bos »

acc_297 wrote: post #57

I worked long months in the forestry industry (re-planting trees) during university it’s not so tough as sex work but sometimes people throw it in the bag of “low-skill” or “manual labour” jobs as if thought or critical thinking we’re not required. I have to say now working a “real” job now (for salary benefits etc.) I know way more forestry folks who could do my job today (consulting) than current coworkers who coul…

This is how I feel coming from the trades into the offices, my colleagues are often surprised when I say the work we do is easy.

Re: We are all animals at night

#98

Post by jjulius »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #81

Let's get this straight. The person blessed with what is basically a panhandling superpower -- an attractive female body -- somehow says her marks , the ones paying $80, have an entitled attitude toward sexual attention. Pause and think about that. Do you think these guys had a Plan B to buy them an English degree? These places conduct zero-sum economic activity. One person loses money, one person gains money, and no…

[flagged]

Re: We are all animals at night

#99

Post by ACow_Adonis »

morelisp wrote: post #49
ACow_Adonis wrote: post #40

I feel like I'm missing some cultural context here that made this a semi- difficult read: obviously? the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? but can someone explain to me exactly what the nature of the arrangement/work/ business she's working in is? is it just prostitution and for some reason they don't call it that in Canad…

> the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? I'm genuinely curious where you live that this is not the case. It is such a euphemism in every Anglophone country, and (large parts of?) Germany and Italy. It is usually illegal (or at least unlicensed) even in places where prostitution has some kind of legal status.

I spent a fair bit of my youth where there's been legalised brothels (or at least I assume they were through most of my childhood) and sex work. And on the other hand there's also physiotherapists and actual massages. I don't particularly like massages that much, personally, but if needing one I go in and tap my health card and that helps cover it.

So presumably there was no need to hide the business behind the euphemism/front, everyone just knew that if you wanted sex/porn, you went to a brothel in suburb X. Even where I am now, i know there's brothels and presumably private sex workers and if i want a massage I go and I book a massage.

Re: We are all animals at night

#100

Post by vorpalhex »

belorn wrote: post #90
atleastoptimal wrote: post #26

This is why I imagine sex robots will only be a good thing. The humanitarian promise of AGI is it serves human needs optimally and frees humans from the need to stoop to the lowest levels to serve them.

The general impression I get from the article (and similar reports) is that patrons of sex workers in general do not seek the mechanical aspects of sex. They also do not seek power. What the largest majority seek is validation. The big breakthrough would be robots that provided the emotional need of human connection and validation. If the mind could be tricked into a similar state as being in the center of a strong s…

There's a community of people who really seek out "AI girlfriends". Once or twice a year I sort of peek in and see what they are doing.

What surprises me is how bad the tech is. It's "mediocre chatbot" level currently and yet these people are VERY happy with it, spending hundreds a month and having all sort of custom artwork done.

For a meaningful percentage of the pop, very low fidelity tech, even at an extreme price, is enough.

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