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Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

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Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#91
post #87
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use Kompose https://kompose.io , just sayin :)

With 8.7k stars, plus the last commit was made 4 days ago and the last release was 3 weeks ago. That's a pretty strong option!

Yeah it is a pity people think this way. If you create something that just works and don't need bugfixes for a year then you are punished! Probably those people should add empty commit "nothing to do!" and do release "release notes: nothing more to add or remove"

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#92
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 8.7k stars, plus the last commit was made 4 days ago and the last release was 3 weeks ago. That's a pretty strong option!

Yeah it is a pity people think this way. If you create something that just works and don't need bugfixes for a year then you are punished! Probably those people should add empty commit "nothing to do!" and do release "release notes: nothing more to add or remove"

I partially agree with you.

Docker Compose is still a moving project. Look at the version of the schema. It evolves.

Kubernetes is also a platform that is moving. And it is moving fast.

If Kompose was considered `done` by its authors in 2020, I don't think I would even bother trying it out. It probably wouldn't be able to parse recent Docker Compose schemas and it would probably output outdated Kubernetes manifests.

But, see, yesterday I was looking for a Time Boxing application and stumbled on that one: https://github.com/khrykin/StrategrDesktop/. I dismissed it because the last release was in 2020. But that is an example of an app that could be considered `done` and still useful 3 years later.

Hence why I partially agree with you. :)

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#93
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification! Maybe I’m using the wrong term, but when installing Docker, you need root access, and not for Podman. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think it’s possible to install Docker if you’re not root on the machine?

https://docs.docker.com/desktop/mac/permission-requirements/ This link breaks down what permissions are used on MacOS. > Maybe I’m using the wrong term Typically, the meaningful piece with "rootless" Docker is that the daemon is not running as root. When the Docker daemon is running as root on a Linux server, for example, anyone who can access the daemon (i.e. anyone in the "docker" group) has enough access to the sy…

> That being said, I don't personally see any security value added or removed by an installer process needing to elevate privileges. That's a one-time thing and likely should require admin privileges

Where I worked before we didn’t have root access on our laptops, so we couldn’t install Docker.

I’ve switched company since, but my former coworkers were able to install Podman (not Podman Desktop) without root access.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#94
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it is a pity people think this way. If you create something that just works and don't need bugfixes for a year then you are punished! Probably those people should add empty commit "nothing to do!" and do release "release notes: nothing more to add or remove"

I partially agree with you. Docker Compose is still a moving project. Look at the version of the schema. It evolves. Kubernetes is also a platform that is moving. And it is moving fast. If Kompose was considered `done` by its authors in 2020, I don't think I would even bother trying it out. It probably wouldn't be able to parse recent Docker Compose schemas and it would probably output outdated Kubernetes manifests.…

StrategrDesktop still has three unticked boxes for platform support, though :-)

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#95
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this pointless, since if the other user has access to docker, they basically have root access to the machine?

I don't think users need to have root access to use Docker.

They don't, but if you have given them access to Docker then it's just as if you had given them access to root.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#96
post #28
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Docker Desktop for Mac works pretty great and they improved the startup. Not really had issues to warrant switching.

My experience on Mac: - colima: Testcontainers cannot connect to the containers when the tests are ran from the command line (I have env vars DOCKER_HOST=unix:///Users/dxxvi/.colima/docker.sock and TESTCONTAINERS_DOCKER_SOCKET_OVERRIDE=/var/run/docker.sock). However, the same tests ran fine in IntelliJ. - Docker Desktop: doesn't have the above issue. Don't know why.

Maybe this was a typo in your comment, but you should double check to make sure that DOCKER_HOST is set to `unix:///Users/dxxvi/.colima/default/docker.sock` (missing `default` in your line)

I just verified running Testcontainers tests via CLI with those env vars you posted. YMMV

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#97
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK fair enough (and I was being deliberately provocative so deserve any criticism I get). You're of course right that there's a huge diversity of programmers (in terms of experience, background, and extent to which they give a shit even if they're experienced and had access to the most helpful family background and best education a wealthy developed country can provide). But don't you kind of think that we should sti…

I agree in the same manner I agree we should fix the world hunger problem. :)

Haha but no, they're not similar. We can absolutely influence the prevalence of inappropriate GUI interfaces. For starters, push back if someone tells you to make one inappropriately. I don't think there's a huge market demand from GUI-prone programmers; I believe those people skew more towards being less opinionated and just using what's suggested. It's more driven by product managers and people writing code using languages/frameworks that are very divorced from the command line perpetuating the same thing in the products they create.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://docs.docker.com/desktop/mac/permission-requirements/ This link breaks down what permissions are used on MacOS. > Maybe I’m using the wrong term Typically, the meaningful piece with "rootless" Docker is that the daemon is not running as root. When the Docker daemon is running as root on a Linux server, for example, anyone who can access the daemon (i.e. anyone in the "docker" group) has enough access to the sy…

> That being said, I don't personally see any security value added or removed by an installer process needing to elevate privileges. That's a one-time thing and likely should require admin privileges Where I worked before we didn’t have root access on our laptops, so we couldn’t install Docker. I’ve switched company since, but my former coworkers were able to install Podman (not Podman Desktop) without root access.

Ah, I see. So not really container runtime security, more operational/principle of least privilege. Had not accounted for that, I can definitely see how that would be useful.

Although, I would say we have definitely strayed far away from the typical definition/security benefits of "rootless" container runtimes. Usually the rootless container threat model accounts for containers or access to the runtime being weaponized -- it's not usually IT preventing you from installing apps. :)

Still, thanks for indulging this conversation.

(Also, I thought the only way to run Podman containers locally on MacOS was Podman Desktop -- has that changed recently?)

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