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Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

indiegogo.com

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Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#91

Post by hoosieree »

ChrisRR wrote: post #55
blizdiddy wrote: post #48

My unsolicited advice: turn on a lamp in your workspace, and turn down your monitor brightness. An app like twinkle tray makes adjusting screen brightness as easy as adjusting speaker volume. Your eyes really don't care about emissive or reflected light.

I do anecdotally find that the better ambient light causes less eye strain.

When your pupils are smaller, the image that hits your retina is sharper, just like with a pinhole camera.

Sharper images lead to less eyestrain because you don't need to keep your eye still for as long.

I use light color themes for this reason. Although I always add the caveat to "do what works for you", because everyone's body is different.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#92

Post by syntaxing »

Honestly looks awesome and Dasung is pretty consistent with their product delivery. Having color would be a game changer for coding. But the monochrome one is already an eye watering price ($1800 USD). This is probably going to be north of $2500.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#93

Post by orbital-decay »

no_wizard wrote: post #11
cbeach wrote: post #7

Very impressive tech demo, but in practice, the lack of contrast and the slow (but impressive for e-ink) refresh rate would be a dealbreaker. Also, as others have said, what's the benefit of e-ink on the desktop where mains power is readily available?

E-Ink can achieve “real color” better than LED / LCD for design that is used in non electronic mediums. Also glare. The eye strain on e-ink is much less than that of LED / LCD displays. Subjectively I like the realism color aspect

> E-Ink can achieve “real color” better than LED / LCD for design that is used in non electronic mediums.

Can it, though? What makes it able to, and what is the real color? When I hold a physical Pantone patch against my calibrated IPS display in proper viewing conditions, I fail to see any difference.

> Also glare.

My experience is that E-Ink readers have the same issues with glare as any other display, compared to paper which doesn't have it.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#94

Post by mdp2021 »

skerit wrote: post #3

Awesome, though I need this in a laptop.

Do you need colour, and is 10'' enough for you?

I just checked the current products from Onyx, and you can have e.g. a "Kaleido 3" 10.3'', 2480x1860 300 DPI (1240x930 150 DPI per tint) in the "Tab Ultra C", for ~600 coins.

https://onyxboox.com/boox_tabultrac

Very probably VNC or better Remote Desktop tech will work on it.

Bring your laptop and your tablet, make the use you need.

The problem: if you keep them cable connected, you'd be straining the laptop battery...

--

Or, Linux on the tablet (maybe via Termux, you can also get a desktop environment).

Or, Android directly, with a BT keyboard...

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#95

Post by 5- »

speaking of passive screens on indiegogo, this launched recently:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/world-s-first-color-rlcd-...

in theory this should be much more interesting than e-ink (lcd refresh rates, similar to sharp mip displays in pebble/garmin/playdate, frontlight), but not so sure about the android tablet chassis.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#96

Post by mdp2021 »

sublinear wrote: post #75
packetlost wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a huge game changer for the vast majority of folks on HN that are looking at a terminal, text editor, or docs for 90% of their day. Hard disagree. Unless you're not typing all that much and particularly insensitive to input latency, you're not going to want to do too much typing on these. I know I couldn't stand it.

Input latency is really bad even at 24hz. My typing speed slows down dramatically and typos feel so painful to correct compared to 60hz and above.

Some of us suspended the habit to look at the text while typing (on systems with latency), and look at the typed only periodically (off, on, off, on).

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#97

Post by Brian_K_White »

thelazyone wrote: post #86
Brian_K_White wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do that already, and it results in ghosting and leftover artifacts. It's all tradeoffs, improving one number only to a limited extent and only at the expense of other numbers. Ie, faster action at the expense of worse image. No free lunch or getting around it by handwaving 'advancement'.

If the update was truly pixel based there should be no ghosting/artifact whatsoever. Looks like global refreshes or cleanup are still relevant, while ideally each pixel could be completely independent. Trade-offs are a problem, but in this case i don't see any physical reason for this to be a theoretical trade-off. More like a limit of the current technology.

It is pixel based logically, which comes out only imperfectly physically. Believe what you will.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#98

Post by mdp2021 »

5- wrote: post #95

speaking of passive screens on indiegogo, this launched recently: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/world-s-first-color-rlcd-... in theory this should be much more interesting than e-ink (lcd refresh rates, similar to sharp mip displays in pebble/garmin/playdate, frontlight), but not so sure about the android tablet chassis.

Unfortunately, with these technologies, it is the effect revealed by direct experience to determine whether "you would use it or not".

Cpr. Mirasol, etc.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#99

Post by mdp2021 »

thelazyone wrote: post #86
Brian_K_White wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do that already, and it results in ghosting and leftover artifacts. It's all tradeoffs, improving one number only to a limited extent and only at the expense of other numbers. Ie, faster action at the expense of worse image. No free lunch or getting around it by handwaving 'advancement'.

If the update was truly pixel based there should be no ghosting/artifact whatsoever. Looks like global refreshes or cleanup are still relevant, while ideally each pixel could be completely independent. Trade-offs are a problem, but in this case i don't see any physical reason for this to be a theoretical trade-off. More like a limit of the current technology.

> If the update was truly pixel based there should be no

Why? Nobody said that the cell is "reset". The cell is modified. The resulting state depends on the former state. This causes ghosting.

To achieve what you are suggesting, the procedure would be e.g. to first set the pixel black, then white (reset to a base state), then the greyscale value of the intended content. This would slow down rendering dramatically, and make regions flicker.

And, note, this may be something that some "EPD waveforms" do - but there are tradeoffs... E.g. Fast? Ok, lose the greyscales. Detailed? Ok, get lots of flashing at update. Mid-way? Ok get some degree of ghosting.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#100

Post by mdp2021 »

orbital-decay wrote: post #93
no_wizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-Ink can achieve “real color” better than LED / LCD for design that is used in non electronic mediums. Also glare. The eye strain on e-ink is much less than that of LED / LCD displays. Subjectively I like the realism color aspect

> E-Ink can achieve “real color” better than LED / LCD for design that is used in non electronic mediums. Can it, though? What makes it able to, and what is the real color? When I hold a physical Pantone patch against my calibrated IPS display in proper viewing conditions, I fail to see any difference. > Also glare. My experience is that E-Ink readers have the same issues with glare as any other display, compared to…

> the same issues with glare

True, but that is a property of the products, not of the technology. (It seems that they are not using external layers of the highest quality.)

So it may be possible to find an EPD display with a decent anti-glare finish. (It may also depend on the production batch.)

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