Anecdotally I haven't observed managers having more difficulties job hopping than engineers. In fact managers are often the first to jump the ship in stormy weather.
Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
91–100 of 192 posts
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember that all the people up the chain deciding compensation are managers. It's natural that they would perceive the management track as more important, because they're on it.
It's a vicious cycle. Someone needs to break the chain.
I've actually been in HR discussions telling people managers are overrated and we need to value ICs more. It's really difficult to explain to HR people that managing people isn't[1] a higher responsability job than being an expert at doing something...
[1] Of course, sometimes it is. It depends on the team size and seniority, but also depends on the expertise. I'm just saying that a manager does not have to always have a higher grade than a person on his team.
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#93> Basically everyone who utters the question “.. but how technical are they?” in that particular tone of voice is a shitbird.
Software is a new industry, we're only just starting to get it right, and put behind us a litany of failed projects and methodologies. Every decision in a software company has a technical aspect. I personally am absolutely over non-technical managers and the aberrant strategies and directions they set out on. In my jaundiced view, any software company not led by developers is just waiting to be blown out of the water.
But don't let that detract from an intelligent, heart-felt and thought-provoking article :-)
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#94I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…
I grew up reading all kinds of articles and books about how engineering itself is a career track and I believed it. However, when I looked at the great engineers, it seems they eventually turned into executives. Jeff Dean, for instance, is one the greatest engineers. He has deep technical skills. He is versatile, as we can see that he made key contributions in storages, distributed systems, and machine learning. Yet…
Some say they work for money alone and measure it in bills paid, in which case they can promote to management position, because the only difference they see is salary.
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#95> Basically everyone who utters the question “.. but how technical are they?” in that particular tone of voice is a shitbird. Software is a new industry, we're only just starting to get it right, and put behind us a litany of failed projects and methodologies. Every decision in a software company has a technical aspect. I personally am absolutely over non-technical managers and the aberrant strategies and directions…
The thing that makes best managers IMO is the lack of ambition to be leaders. They understand their role as helping engineers do their job and grow and do that well. Whether you need technical expertise for that is an open question. In my career I've seen bad managers both with and without technical background, while good managers all had some experience as engineers - but my sample size is quite small.
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#96Holy smokes this was a timely post... I am strongly considering moving into a team lead role with the idea that I might move into engineering management afterwards.
What's the trend w.r.t mgmt in healthy companies? I have seen the atherosclerosis-like effect of many many fiefdoms at the current "${JOB}" and the crushing burden of too many middle managers. Will the successful companies of the future (today?) have fewer managers and many more engineers?
Anecdotally I am seeing many more managers being laid off on my personal LinkedIn timeline than ICs...
One reason I'd like to get into leadership/mgmt is to have a greater say in team culture, tech choices, what gets done and what gets sidelined, etc. I feel currently very little power. Sure I could become a staff level or higher engineer and have some pull but it'll only be something that: "gets taken into advisement" rather than some edict given/decided by a manager or managers.
Is my thinking completely wrong?
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember that all the people up the chain deciding compensation are managers. It's natural that they would perceive the management track as more important, because they're on it.
It's a vicious cycle. Someone needs to break the chain.
Could it be (get ready to crack some eggs as I am about to fry some conspiracy-bacon) an effort by HR/companies to promote sr engineers into managers to then give HR reasons to cull the herd if they need to?
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#98Anecdotally I haven't observed managers having more difficulties job hopping than engineers. In fact managers are often the first to jump the ship in stormy weather.
And once they reach the director/vp/c levels it’s even easier to do so, independent on their achievements. They always throw the classic ‘grew the team from x to y people, and from i teams to k teams’ and get an offer.
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#99I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…
I grew up reading all kinds of articles and books about how engineering itself is a career track and I believed it. However, when I looked at the great engineers, it seems they eventually turned into executives. Jeff Dean, for instance, is one the greatest engineers. He has deep technical skills. He is versatile, as we can see that he made key contributions in storages, distributed systems, and machine learning. Yet…
I suspect the reason for this is that even great engineers don't scale indefinitely: At some point, if you want to increase output, you have to delegate some part of your work. To increase output even further, you have to delegate even more. That also doesn't scale indefinitely, so you have to start delegating the delegating. And before you know it, you're an SVP and not really directly doing any technical work anymore.
Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's an issue of incentives, and sadly my experience is it's often not the immediate management that's the problem, it's structural issues with the company that low-level managers have little if any say in. Speaking for my own experience, program-level and above management often doesn't put their money where their mouth is. Maintenance is chronically under-funded, well-articulated and respectful feedback is ignored w…
Sociopaths, the clueless and losers. This great essay analyzing The Office argues that in a modern business context you're one of the three. [1] Those "functional elites" you mentioned? Usually they're working 20-50% more for 0-25% percent more pay. They're called the clueless because they've been conned into working more for less, usually under some clever guise like company being family or company values or the pro…
Not every place in life is a place of struggle and fight. Some people actually enjoy their work. This just sounds like "class struggle" and "proletariat and bourgeoisie" under different names. Also thinking of your colleagues and people as "elites", "losers" and the "clueless" gives me some understanding to the state of mind of who writes this.
To keep it lighter, in the companies I've worked in the architypes of people were more like:
- The "anger problem that shouts every once in a while" guy
- The "chronic nervous person that is paralyzed by impostor syndrome"
- The "i find more problems than solutions" guy
- The "i'm here to socialize, make friends, maybe get married"
- The "i gave up 10 years ago and just want my paycheck"
- The "i'm a kid learning everything I can and am just excited to be here"
- The "i'm working on my true passion outside of work while hanging out here with you guys" etc etc
People have their own lives, not everything is just a power play of losers and elites.
I'll be honest, even if the world was exactly as you described, which it isn't, I'd choose to not see it that way so that my life wouldn't be such a bleak existance. Rather be a naive happy fool than enlightned and depressed.