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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#91

Post by mrcartmeneses »

scott_w wrote: post #60
ProxCoques wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ALL polls showing a majority rejoin exclude “Don’t knows” That'll be like the referendum then.

Except in the referendum, many of those “Don’t knows” turned into “Leave.” My point is that you can’t just read a poll and confidently declare there’s popular support for rejoining the EU.

I see the EU referendum as being like the question: do you want to cheat on your wife?

And any future referendum as being: do you wish you hadn’t cheated on your wife?

So basically it was 51% leave and it will be 55% regret.

The proverbial has hit the fan in the UK since Brexit. It is all very real now for people and not just some silly wet dream

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#92

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

gettodachoppa wrote: post #87
mpweiher wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The referendum wasn't actually democratic. 2. The obligations that people read into the referendum (incorrectly, but whatever) have been discharged: Brexit happened. That is the past. 3. Democracy is not "One man, one vote, one time". New majorities mean new democratic mandates. Time moves on. 4. And these majorities are much, much larger than ~ 52:48 majority for Brexit. A split that, had it gone for remain, Nige…

I agree with #3 and I imagine Brexit will be reversed because of demographics. Give it a generation or so and the conformist younger people who have had globalisation propaganda and lack of pride in their country programmed into their minds since childhood will vote to rejoin. Every TV show, every teacher, most NGOs, are at it.

Got it, people only ever want to join a bigger federation of states due to brainwashing and lack of pride in their own state. Good to know you have all the answers.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#93

Post by deepthunder »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #84
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

> How do we get sensible disagreement on the viable ones and laugh the crayon drawings out? This is the biggest problem. It's an even bigger problem in the US. The issue is lack of education. There's a reason repub voters are generally not college educated. The answer is also education, with the caveat you can't educate people who don't want to be educated because they are already too far down a rabbit hole.

Lets not forget what swayed the working class (former Labour stronholds) to vote Brexit in the first place: IMMIGRATION! [aka "free-movement"]

Tony Blair was the only leader to allow Immigration ["free-movement"] from Eastern Europe the from moment they joined the EU. Coupled with English being most peoples second language the UK was flooded with people that helped to keep the wages down (by design of course). And who benefited from that? Not the working class.

And Boris was savvy enough to know that if he campaigned on "get Brexit done" he could topple the "red wall" and score a huge victory.

Keir Starmer thinks Corbyn's "socialism" is what cost them the election (2019). No, it was Brexit and possibly Corbyn's "open borders" policy which killed Labour at the polls.

Next election, no-one will be voting FOR Labour, they will be voting AGAINST the Tories.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#94

Post by deepthunder »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #74
mutatio wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a remainer, how do you think your portrayal comes across? Even the mere financial contributions alone (net contributor) should be acknowledged and recognized as a force for good for the project during our tenure. Some countries also appreciated our counterweight to the French/German hegemony.

I know that I did. FWIW, if you're from any of the post 2004 members then the UK is the reason that the enlargement happened. Additionally given that we'll all need security cooperation for the foreseeable it would be easier if that took place under the EU aegis.

But the irony of the 2004 enlargement is that is what primarily led to the UK voting for Brexit.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#95

Post by deepthunder »

gumballindie wrote: post #24
kramerger wrote: post #9

Please don't. Things have been so much smoother in the EU since UK left. Their politicians had this idea that Europe was out to screw them in every deal and that made it a very annoying 30 years of "collaboration".

Things are smooth indeed. Without real opposition, Germany can further drag the continent down the stagnation and economic strangulation through austerity only it benefits from paths as it pleases.

Totally agree. I think also the Scandinavian countries were sad to see the UK go, as someone else has mentioned in another comment, it was a counterweight to German/French hegemony.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#96

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

deepthunder wrote: post #94
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that I did. FWIW, if you're from any of the post 2004 members then the UK is the reason that the enlargement happened. Additionally given that we'll all need security cooperation for the foreseeable it would be easier if that took place under the EU aegis.

But the irony of the 2004 enlargement is that is what primarily led to the UK voting for Brexit.

Yup, and it was predominantly driven by the UK trying to slow down integration.

But, because they pushed for enlargement, they then felt obliged to open their markets to the countries immediately, and that was definitely one of the drivers of the Brexit vote.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#97

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

blibble wrote: post #82
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you expect any of those things? Like I followed the process religiously and I kept being surprised by the sheer insanity of all the UK government decisions.

yes, I successfully predicted all of the above from June 24th 2016: a hard exit with a fudge on the NI border was the only path that kept the tory party in one piece and the tory party has always prioritised that over everything else remember: it's the only reason they called a referendum in the first place the only way it would have gone differently would have been if Labour had a leader other than Corbyn having him…

I mean no disrespect, but that seems very unlikely.

Like, the Tory party didn't remain in one piece, they expelled a bunch of people and are almost unrecognisable from the people in power in 2016.

Any chance you have comments here or elsewhere supporting your predictions?

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#98

Post by Timon3 »

mlyle wrote: post #48
mutatio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well only even the most pious remainers would accept the Euro as a currency and removing fiscal sovereignty, so it's a total non-starter. The special treatment for the old guard (German automotive, French farming industries) also needs to be expunged.

> would accept the Euro as a currency I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro.

> I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro.

The EU website disagrees:

> All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.

https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-a...

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#99

Post by mlyle »

mutatio wrote: post #61
mlyle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would accept the Euro as a currency I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro.

Because domestic UK politics wouldn't allow this to pass on technicalities, I mean haven't you learned anything from the build up to Brexit? It would have to be explicit to be palatable, not some technicality that we effectively want to play ball on the Euro, but never really do... Hell, even from the EU side I'd want a honest decision, not political illusion.

I'm not sure what you're even saying. 5/27 states sit outside of ERM2 and are allowed to not progress towards adopting the Euro.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#100

Post by mlyle »

Timon3 wrote: post #98
mlyle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would accept the Euro as a currency I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro.

> I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro. The EU website disagrees: > All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'. https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-a...

5/27 states are not attempting to meet convergence criteria (ERM2); there is no mechanism to force states to join ERM2.
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