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I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

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Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#91

Post by ktizo »

icebraining wrote: post #69
ktizo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open up a package manager, select two, or loads of, unrelated packages, apply. Is not a legitimate criticism.

Well, the criticism was in fact "you can't install software while updating your system," and it's true - if your system is updating, you have to wait to install another package. In practice, I don't see this as a major problem, but on the other hand, many people have slower connections that me. It'd be nice if the apt clients could download the packages without locking the database, and let you select and queue packa…

That certainly appears to be the original criticism, but the criticism seemed to be moving, so I answered where it had seemingly moved to.

Is the risk of trying to shoot a moving target.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#92

Post by kiloaper »

ktizo wrote: post #88
kiloaper wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And it's frustrating. Absolutely, on any system. I'll admit I swear every now and again when I get caught trying to run apt-get with synaptic open on another workspace. >You will notice I said "it has to be better than 'better than Windows'", because "better than Windows" still means "learning something other than Windows". I agree. I guess I'm guilty of accepting a limitation because it's commonplace. I assume over…

Chunk any overly long install queues and set the requested package to check for dependencies and add itself to the next chunk, after the current chunk is processed.

Does any package manager do something like this? I can't think of any linux package managers that allows simultaneous installs or updates.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#93

Post by freehunter »

jasonlotito wrote: post #44
freehunter wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

> Linux won't be ready until you can run a system update and install a new program at the same time. Mac/Windows won't be ready until I can run programs and update them at the same time. Mac/Windows won't be ready until I don't get calls from relatives asking about setting up their hardware/software/whateverware. Argue all you want. The issue has nothing to do with anything you've mentioned. The issue is merely suppo…

I don't know if you just didn't read my last paragraph or if you're intentionally being daft.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#94

Post by moreorless »

Are we still on this? Linux/BSD has been ready for the world for many years. Heck, my old man who never used a computer before got started using Red Flag Linux. Granted, I did the install and configuration for him, but that is really no different from most users who buy preconfigured computers/laptops from Lenovo, Apple, Dell, and the like.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#95

Post by freehunter »

trotsky wrote: post #56

Making Linux usable by the “general public” was eschewed by the Linux community for years. I've been part of the linux community since 1994, and I have never once heard anyone express a desire to prevent mainstream adoption. Quite the contrary - many, many people have been strident evangelists over the years (to the point that it could be quite annoying; whatever the question the answer was linux) and many, many peop…

From being in the Linux world for about a decade now, most feature requests I've had for making the desktop more usable have been met with "just run this in the terminal" followed by me blindly running the command with no knowledge of what it did. That's antithetical of Linux on the desktop.

Now Canonical is making Linux more accessible, and people are throwing an outrage over changing parts of the Linux experience that desperately needed to be changed for desktop users.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#96

Post by freehunter »

astine wrote: post #61
freehunter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are really not reading my last paragraph, are they? If Windows rates a 6/10, you don't unseat them by being 7/10 or even 8/10. You need to be better than "better than Windows". Ubuntu is striving to not be "better than Windows" but rather "really good on its own merits, without need for comparison". I like this and I appreciate this, but they're not quite there yet. Two years, maybe.

To be fair, it rule one of persuasive writing to put your thesis at the beginning of your argument and follow with your supporting arguments. As it is, you're changing your entire argument in the second to last sentence.

Eh, when I'm writing on a forum, I tend to use train of thought. I don't really feel I'm changing my argument, more of clarifying that I'm not picking on Ubuntu (as all systems have problems), but Ubuntu has a more significant problem of needing to be better than better. Windows and OSX don't need to be good at anything and they would still keep their marketshare.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#97

Post by freehunter »

astine wrote: post #86
tammer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally concur. I recently tried an experiment - could my girlfriend use the Wubi installer and get Ubuntu going without any boyfriend tech-support? Results: The installer is far from perfect, but after a few tries and a few seemingly random glitches it repartitioned and installed flawlessly. She was able to boot into Oneric no problem. Once she was there, she liked everything. Thought it looked really "zoomy" and…

That sounds like good progress to me. Much better than what I had to go through to install Ubuntu for the first time not too long ago. I think the obvious solution here would be to replace those cryptic errors with clearer ones which explain the problem and solution much better. For example, how about a suggestion to plug your computer into a router during the WiFi driver download?

I remember in 2004 trying to install Fedora on my desktop and having it not recognize my wifi, NIC, or USB ports. Trying to find the right driver at the library and copying it and all its dependencies onto a couple floppy disks was quite entertaining.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#98

Post by diminish »

freehunter wrote: post #31
Iv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Microsoft webcam. The kind that is sold with a big label on the USB plug saying INSTALL THE DRIVER BEFORE PLUGGING ! It never worked on my wife's Vista. It worked without installing drivers on Ubuntu. A microsoft hardware failing on a microsoft software. This day I decided Ubuntu was ready for mainstream. A few hardware makers play foul (I am hating nVidia a lot on the whole Optimus issue) but when it comes…

People are really not reading my last paragraph, are they? If Windows rates a 6/10, you don't unseat them by being 7/10 or even 8/10. You need to be better than "better than Windows". Ubuntu is striving to not be "better than Windows" but rather "really good on its own merits, without need for comparison". I like this and I appreciate this, but they're not quite there yet. Two years, maybe.

Truth is windows will always lose, as long as a microsoft peripheral works better on linux than windows. similarly, any HP printer works perfectly on linux, but on windows it is a tedious work. I stopped supporting my circle's windows for those reasons; simply suggest them linux or bye.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#99

Post by freehunter »

davidw wrote: post #37

It's not a binary either/or, though. Something like 6 years ago, the company I was working for went Ubuntu for pretty much everything, including the computers of the call center staff. Since we took care of the installations, all they had to do was know how to open a browser and openoffice, and they were just fine. In other words, Ubuntu was ready for 'prime time'. My wife has been using it for year as well. For her…

Two years ago I was contracted by a local phone survey company to replace their dumb terminals with Linux desktops. After a few hiccups with supporting old (Dell) hardware, we successfully rolled out 25 Ubuntu 9.04 desktops and got them working with their custom hardware and software. I made a LiveCD and a reinstall disc so if something broke during the day, everything could be run from the LiveCD, and replaced with the reinstall disc at night.

Only problem was, they didn't tell me it was a contract position, they told me I was an employee in charge of installation and support. Very surprised when I got to work and my keycard access was revoked.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#100

Post by ktizo »

kiloaper wrote: post #92
ktizo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chunk any overly long install queues and set the requested package to check for dependencies and add itself to the next chunk, after the current chunk is processed.

Does any package manager do something like this? I can't think of any linux package managers that allows simultaneous installs or updates.

'Software Manager' on Mint queues installs so that you can choose and set things to install with it while it is installing stuff. A few of the simplified package managers do this now. Not sure if any do intelligent chunking or integrate particularly well with the standard update utility yet.

It needs improvement, sure, but I still don't see it as a UX killer, especially when compared to most commercial install and update systems.

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