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Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

nature.com

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Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#91

Post by lynx23 »

barrysteve wrote: post #63
lynx23 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

It is strange. I wouldn't come to a tech site to air the counter-tech opinion and I wouldn't anticipate a fair and balanced response.

Wait, I couldn't even survive without my smartphone, being blind and all. Given that context, if a person deeply emersed in tech to actually get things done during the day says they think not everything should be solved with an app, that is a counter-tech opinion?

And yes, I sort of deliberately put this comment here to see how HN users react if their believes or their bussiness model are seemingly "attacked".

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#92

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

zuzuleinen wrote: post #82
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I come from a contemplative Christian tradition, and we've adapted Mindfulness to Christocentric meditations. I also practice centering prayer, and this is in the Hesychasm tradition of Christian contemplation. Hesychasm, and in modern times, Centering Prayer as well, are not without controversy. There are people who accuse us of attempting to "empty the mind" and push out all thought, but my goal is to fill…

If someone is interested on reading more on contemplative Christian tradition I recommend them: The Philokalia Vol 5 [1] I started reading more on it after reading The Experience of God[2] I was suprised to find out there was a breathing component as well and being so close to the eastern meditation practices. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09X9HRWXH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0…

There is so much prayer that is designed to regulate and temper the breathing. Where should we begin? Any antiphonal (call-and-response) singing or recitation is a breathing exercise: the participants are alternately vocalizing a prayer, breathing out, and meditating upon the meaning of the words, or they are listening to the prayer, inhaling, and meditating upon the meaning of those words as well. This pattern can be observed in the Responsorial Psalm portion of the Christian liturgy. In Byzantine liturgy, the first antiphonal chant that comes to mind are the petitions, where the leader (priest/deacon) prays for peace and favors from the Life-Giving Trinity, and the faithful repeat, "Lord have mercy/Christ have mercy/Gospodi, pomiluj". But there are many more.

Some languages are better than others for this purpose. Latin and Greek have excellent word formations with good vowel sounds, and these languages easily become legato, connected syllables throughout a smooth phrase. English and German, not so much. The Eastern Churches worship using the vernacular tongues, or sometimes using sacred, ancient languages, and so YMMV there.

The Rosary itself is a meditation and a regulation of breath. Jesus admonished us not to "babble like the pagans" because their "many words" were meaningless and fruitless, calling upon created things, rather than the Creator. So praying the Rosary (auricular, in groups) is not liturgical, but it is a discipline. The leader chants half of the prayer, then the participants chant the other half, and they take turns breathing. It is an intimate, primal, profound experience in itself, but the breathing is not a mere goal or object. The object is to enter into each Mystery, meditating upon its meaning for us, in full context: the context of the prayer, the place and time, our individual lives, and the life of the Church herself.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#93

Post by miroljub »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #80
astrange wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies. Well, it's quite true that sometimes instead of developing stress resilience you should simply get rid of the source of the stress.

Yes but that’s a trivial claim.

Care to claim something substantial and contribute to the discussion in a non-trivial way?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#94

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

ShamelessC wrote: post #50
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

You seem very fond of making huge generalizations about people based on their country of origin. The "western way" is only (strictly) in opposition to Buddhism in the narrative you are subscribing to. The reality is that many Americans are acutely aware of just how toxic aspects of mainstream American culture. It is probably best to approach debate from this point of view, particularly if you want to convince people…

There are a couple of categories, and let's apply it to Mindfulness according to TFA.

1) People who don't actually know what Mindfulness is, other than secondhand sources, word of mouth, etc.

2) People who've tried Mindfulness, and they know a little more than (1) due to direct experience, and possibly a minister who guided them.

3) People who were born into a family whose members fervently pratices Mindfulness, teach Mindfulness to others, and promote it in public.

Now let's see why people hate Mindfulness or say it's not for them.

(1) may say that it sounds weird or foreign, it can't be efficacious, it's too abstract, because they don't know what it's about.

(2) may say that it was hard to concentrate, they kept getting distracted, the classes were expensive, they traveled too far, they didn't feel it working fast enough, it was boring, too spiritual / not spiritual enough.

(3) perhaps their family life was bad, they were neglected or abused, their family members seemed to care more about Mindfulness than this person, and being that "Family" and "Mindfulness" are inextricably linked in their mind, they must reject Mindfulness because it's tarnished by the behavior of its adherents.

So I'd say, don't attack someone who is acting as an evangelist for something, because perhaps they act in good faith. Particularly in HN, this thread is optional for you and me, and so if you feel like it's proseltyzing, just flag it and move on, don't attack a guy because he believes that Emacs and Lisp are the best apps to install on your Linux machine.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#95

Post by verteu »

celdon25 wrote: post #7
TekMol wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies. Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"? How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this? The thought "Is it a long term effect or just temporary?" is totally fine. But then just posting out of your ass does not help anyobody. A quick search for "months" in…

> How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this? I’ve seen the best results with niche email lists that actively moderate the discussion quality. But the results are mixed and I eventually decided that it’s a lost cause. People who don’t bring anything to the table tend to have more time on their hands to post nonsense.

A minimum word limit on comments could help. I'd much prefer "in-depth and dismissive" comments over "brief and dismissive" ones.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#96

Post by ShamelessC »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #94
ShamelessC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem very fond of making huge generalizations about people based on their country of origin. The "western way" is only (strictly) in opposition to Buddhism in the narrative you are subscribing to. The reality is that many Americans are acutely aware of just how toxic aspects of mainstream American culture. It is probably best to approach debate from this point of view, particularly if you want to convince people…

There are a couple of categories, and let's apply it to Mindfulness according to TFA. 1) People who don't actually know what Mindfulness is, other than secondhand sources, word of mouth, etc. 2) People who've tried Mindfulness, and they know a little more than (1) due to direct experience, and possibly a minister who guided them. 3) People who were born into a family whose members fervently pratices Mindfulness, teac…

I'm not against mindfulness _at all_. At no point did I say that I am.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#97

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

ShamelessC wrote: post #96
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of categories, and let's apply it to Mindfulness according to TFA. 1) People who don't actually know what Mindfulness is, other than secondhand sources, word of mouth, etc. 2) People who've tried Mindfulness, and they know a little more than (1) due to direct experience, and possibly a minister who guided them. 3) People who were born into a family whose members fervently pratices Mindfulness, teac…

I'm not against mindfulness _at all_. At no point did I say that I am.

What is "Mindfulness"? How do you define this?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#98

Post by ShamelessC »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #97
ShamelessC wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against mindfulness _at all_. At no point did I say that I am.

What is "Mindfulness"? How do you define this?

The way it is defined in the article we're commenting on.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#99

Post by mrguyorama »

TekMol wrote: post #4
miroljub wrote: post #2

Mindfulness meditation may reduce stress levels, but only temporary. Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms. I don't say that it doesn't "work", but one should be aware of the limitation of mindfulness practices, and look at it just as one of the tools in a tool set to fight stress, not as a holy grail, like many of its proponents preach.

User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies. Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"? How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this? The thought "Is it a long term effect or just temporary?" is totally fine. But then just posting out of your ass does not help anyobody. A quick search for "months" in…

>How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

Well, the way you achieve a forum where nobody talks out of your ass is by making a forum without a submit button.

However I agree, it's absurd the level of quackery that takes over HN in these circumstances, as if one SV weirdo's magic mushroom trip invalidates decades of genuine research on what makes people stressed and the ways to mitigate that stress.

Nope, apparently we are just all following the wrong religion!

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#100

Post by carvink »

Knee_Pain wrote: post #18

If you want a free mindfulness app you should consider searching for the one developed by the US Department of Veteran Affairs on your platform's app store. It usually ranks very low on the list because not many people know about it and because all the other apps market themselves heavily. Unlike all the garbage apps which ask you for subscriptions and DLCs just to play 10 minutes of audio, every single thing is free…

Also free and relevant - a link to WHO's guide for "unhooking from difficult thoughts and feelings". There's audio you can download. It's not even an app.

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240003927

Here's more detail about how it was tested. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/2022-apri...

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