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Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

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Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#91

Post by ZeroGravitas »

hammock wrote: post #69
developer93 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I don't see a reason why it couldn't be applied to wavy walls if they were high enough, it's just training isn't it?

Fair point. I've personally never seen it

This article mentions them, with photos:

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/12/fruit-walls-urban-fa...

Serpentine or Crinkle-Crankle walls, apparently a Dutch innovation.

> Although it's actually longer than a linear wall, a serpentine wall economizes on materials because the wall can be made strong enough with just one brick thin. The alternate convex and concave curves in the wall provide stability and help to resist lateral forces. Furthermore, the slopes give a warmer microclimate than a flat wall. This was obviously important for the Dutch, who are almost 400 km north of Paris.

> Variants of the serpentine wall had recessed and protruding parts with more angular forms. Few of these seem to have been built outside the Netherlands, with the exception of those erected by the Dutch in the eastern parts of England (two thirds of them in Suffolk county). In their own country, the Dutch built fruit walls as high up north as Groningen (53°N).

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#92

Post by ke88y »

horsawlarway wrote: post #63
CodeSgt wrote: post #39

I feel like everyone this far is missing something, or perhaps just I am. I understand that a wavy wall will be stronger than a straight wall of the same thickness, therefore if you need that additional strength it technically uses fewer bricks to reach it. That said, if the alternative is a 2 layer straight wall, is the wavy wall equally as strong? Or is it just stronger than the single layer wall? Without knowing a…

The wavy design is probably just as strong as the double layer (possibly stronger depending on the direction of force). The issue with a single layer wall isn't really the strength between bricks, or the bricks themselves - it's that a single layer wall has a very narrow base and is subject to tipping over. The wave in the design makes the base of the wall act is if it were MUCH wider, preventing the tipping action o…

Additionally: you need the wall to be "stable enough", not "equally as stable as a double-layer base". Possibly, double-layer brick walls are over-engineered.

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#93

Post by Lutger »

vehemenz wrote: post #45
geeky4qwerty wrote: post #26

This feels a bit like diet clickbait... "use fewer bricks than a straight wall"* *A straight wall of the approximal strength and length of a wavy wall, not just length. My counter would be that from a practical perspective the amount of space wasted by the wavy design seems to negate the usefulness of the design. Probably makes the lawn crew dizzy when mowing it too!

The extra space doesn't have to be fully wasted. You could plant bushes or small trees in the concave sections.

Indeed. Historically these walls have been used in orchards, where they are ideal. The wall serves an important function: it buffers heat. This can make all the difference, especially in late frosts, which are doom for the bloom. Of course, the added warmth can also mean you can grow varieties in a colder climate that you normally wouldn't be able to.

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#94

Post by eastof »

tonmoy wrote: post #79

Not sure about the actual function that defines the wave, but let’s assume they are convex and concave semi circles. Then to make a wall of length L with bricks of l length, we need pi L/l number of bricks. The linked Reddit post says a straight wall needs to be 2 bricks wide to have the same length, which needs 2 L/l number of bricks which is fewer than the wavy walls

It's not one giant semi circle. Lets say each semi-circle has a radius of about 2 ft (judging by the pictures). Every 8 ft section (1 wave/one full cicle) takes 2pi2 ~= 12.56, while the straight wall takes 8*2 = 16 bricks.

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#96

Post by anamexis »

vharuck wrote: post #78

Soda cans also have a counterintuitive efficiency feature: concave bottoms. If a can with a flat bottom held the same amount of soda, it would be shorter and have less surface area, but its metal body would need to be thicker to withstand the same pressure. In the end, it'd require more aluminum. https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/Science-Notebook/2015/0414... ^Probably not the best article for this, but it was easy t…

Engineer Guy (Bill Hammack) has a great video about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw

Edit: Just realized this is the same video you referenced. All of his work is fantastic.

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#97

Post by devilbunny »

pfdietz wrote: post #66

The labor to build such a wall may dominate the savings in brick. But if you're building a brick wall, maybe you don't care much about either. I wonder if this sort of structure could be built by 3D printing, say with concrete or even soil.

Labor is pretty much directly proportional to number of bricks placed. If you save on bricks, you save on labor.

If that was your point, sorry for misreading you.

In the era in which these were commonly used, bricks were largely made on-site or very nearby. So you saved on labor twice - once to make the bricks, and again to place them.

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#98

Post by gowld »

vharuck wrote: post #78

Soda cans also have a counterintuitive efficiency feature: concave bottoms. If a can with a flat bottom held the same amount of soda, it would be shorter and have less surface area, but its metal body would need to be thicker to withstand the same pressure. In the end, it'd require more aluminum. https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/Science-Notebook/2015/0414... ^Probably not the best article for this, but it was easy t…

Standard video:

"The Ingenious Design of the Aluminum Beverage Can"

https://chbe.illinois.edu/news/stories/engineer-guy-ingeniou...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#99

Post by [deleted] »

DrBazza wrote: post #59
geeky4qwerty wrote: post #26

This feels a bit like diet clickbait... "use fewer bricks than a straight wall"* *A straight wall of the approximal strength and length of a wavy wall, not just length. My counter would be that from a practical perspective the amount of space wasted by the wavy design seems to negate the usefulness of the design. Probably makes the lawn crew dizzy when mowing it too!

The 'space wasted' on an estate of many hundreds, if not, thousands of acres is minimal. Given that often the bricks used were made and fired on site, it definitely saved on resources and labour. There's a stately home close to me that has a very short run of one of these walls, and the remains of the old brick kiln up on the hill side. If you know what you're looking for, you can also still see the hollows in the gr…

[deleted]

Re: Wavy walls use fewer bricks than a straight wall (2020)

#100

Post by ehnto »

Sharlin wrote: post #84
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Like how Lawns were a way to brag about how much land you have. "Look, I have so much land I can just grow grass instead of crops, you plebs".

And the lawns of today’s middle class are of course still about signaling, it being very humsn for people to try to raise themselves up by adopting and imitating the lifestyle and customs of the class above them. "Look, I have enough leisure time to spend on an entirely superfluous activity!" or "Look, I’m wealthy enough to pay somebody to engage in an entirely superfluous activity!" Particularly in arid climates it’…

Something that gave me a chuckle growing up where I did in Australia: everyone's lawn died in the summer. You're weren't allowed to water it enough due to drought measures, and the summers are so hot they die off on the first heat of the season.

I notice a lot more people ditch the lawn for native plants now. Sure does look a lot less futile than spending a third of your lot on dead grass.

Many memories playing cricket on dry, prickly, dead grass as a kid.

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