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Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

nytimes.com

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Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#91

Post by BurningFrog »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75
BurningFrog wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that if pharmaceutical research is made unprofitable, that doesn't mean "other people" will do it. It means no one will do that work.

Roads are profitable? Non profits are profitable? There is an enormous amount of valuable work done in aggregate, every day, funded without the intent to profit and with work performed by people not maximizing for comp. DARPA's mRNA research that directly led to rapid COVID vaccine development comes to mind. Cut out the middleman. Fund the research directly. We're paying for the end result one way or another (if not…

I'm not aware of anyone except for profit corporations getting drugs FDA approved.

Hoping that such actors would appear when needed seems optimistic.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#92

Post by lucubratory »

OO000oo wrote: post #90
kelseyfrog wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because it's a tu quoque. Normally when confronted with an argument that ties ones argument with ones behavior, we would say that the argument stands independent from the person saying it. But for what ever season, that seems not to be an assumption with this topic - which is itself a case of special pleading. I'm curious, why though? Isn't it just a case of letting emotions control logic?

I don't know what you think you're onto but it's giving far too much credit to what is nothing more than another toothless, idiotic utterance of the absolutely depraved American bourgeoise mind mush.

Thank you for the incredible verbiage in this comment, I will be stealing it for reference from now on.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#93

Post by scrubs »

jmclnx wrote: post #3

>Supreme Court might be sympathetic to some of the industry’s arguments No surprise here, the US Supreme Court is now just like the rest of the US Gov, they are very happy to take bribes. And due to how the US Gov is structured, no way to stop them from holding out their hand. So getting appointed to that Court is a great gig, you do not even have to care about the law these days.

The Supreme court is/will be bounded by the fact the inflation reduction act is law. This isn't like abortion where there is no federal law passed by congress and signed by the president.

I'm very happy to see this. And surely pricing transparency is good: we're gonna see just how this works.

Further I'm glad the US government is challenging corporate America. Corporations implicitly threaten the US public saying if minimum wage goes up they'll be forced to cut jobs. They implicitly threaten a leaner pipeline of drug advances if prices are negioated down.

Let's see how this cookie crumbles.

The US congress is explicitly tasked with the federal checkbook. Negotiating prices down is clearly in their purview and is consistent with agency they've always had. Has congress ever negotiated a price with defense, office supply chains? Has the congress solicited competitive bids on work? Then why not meds?

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#94

Post by scrubs »

kelipso wrote: post #8
callmeal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Justice Thomas said (in 2001) that for the pay they receive no one would take the job if not for the gifts^H^H^H^H^H bribes. FTFY. As of 2022, the salary of a US Supreme Court Justice is $274,200 per year. The Chief Justice of the United States, who is the head of the Supreme Court, receives a slightly higher salary of $286,700 per year. Of course no one will take that job. How much does a banana cost again? $10?

Yeah, how many millions of government employees and contractors who have to be under very strict gift policies and much lower salaries. Somehow they stay in their jobs without taking bribes.

Bingo. Once again rules are different for the powerful. I don't buy it for a minute.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#95

Post by scrubs »

retrac wrote: post #12
callmeal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Justice Thomas said (in 2001) that for the pay they receive no one would take the job if not for the gifts^H^H^H^H^H bribes. FTFY. As of 2022, the salary of a US Supreme Court Justice is $274,200 per year. The Chief Justice of the United States, who is the head of the Supreme Court, receives a slightly higher salary of $286,700 per year. Of course no one will take that job. How much does a banana cost again? $10?

How much could a good lawyer with a long and distinguished career make in the private market? That's how much we should be paying our judges. If you want the best you have to at least be moderately competitive with what's on offer. I have a similar opinion about legislators -- we probably want top tier doctors and executives and lawyers as our legislators. Being elected to office should not be a step down in their li…

I'd support this (higher pay mabe 5x to 10x) provided:

- no security trading

- recuse if conflicted

- cleanup of political fund raising

- criminal penalties on violation

You want control and just compensation? Can do. But not without commensurate accountability.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#96

Post by tebut »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #24
jmclnx wrote: post #3

>Supreme Court might be sympathetic to some of the industry’s arguments No surprise here, the US Supreme Court is now just like the rest of the US Gov, they are very happy to take bribes. And due to how the US Gov is structured, no way to stop them from holding out their hand. So getting appointed to that Court is a great gig, you do not even have to care about the law these days.

“Now”? Seems like this has been going on for a very long time. We started paying attention now. As for the US gov and institutionalized corruption I highly recommend Lester Lessig’s work around political donations reform as the first step to democracy in the US. We the people and the republic we must reclaim is an excellent summary of the issue and the solution: https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people…

Yeah it turns out humans are mush and goo seeking to survive and propagate

When exactly was this magical past where things were better, I wonder?

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#97

Post by amrocha »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23
amrocha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but at some point the number stops mattering. What's the difference in lifestyle between 300K and 500K? 500K and 1M? And even if there is a difference, is that worth the opportunity cost of paying everyone else a little bit better? It's not a very popular opinion, but there should be a maximum salary imo. Beyond a certain number money is a means of acquiring power and influence, and it feel…

> What's the difference in lifestyle between 300K and 500K? 500K and 1M? Pretty massive, particularly when it comes to taking vacations and bringing friends who can’t afford them with you. $300k barely permits that domestically. $1 or 2mm lets you do that comfortably all over the world. Or, alternatively, single handedly saving restaurants you love or a buddy’s small business.

"Saving" a business isn't really a lifestyle thing, that's more of an investment really. Realistically, your life isn't meaningfully worse if you find a new restaurant to go to.

Paying for friends to vacation with you is a very good one though. But idk, I feel like you can extend that so far that it feels like a copout. For example, maybe you can afford a nice home on 300K, but you can't buy your mom a nice home as well. And you can't pay your brothers student loans. And you can't gift them a car every couple years.

That's not your quality of life, that's paying for someone else to live the same lifestyle as you. At that point I'd just argue for raising wages across the board so that you don't feel the need to pay your friends, they just want to go on vacation with you.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#98

Post by amrocha »

swader999 wrote: post #40
amrocha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but at some point the number stops mattering. What's the difference in lifestyle between 300K and 500K? 500K and 1M? And even if there is a difference, is that worth the opportunity cost of paying everyone else a little bit better? It's not a very popular opinion, but there should be a maximum salary imo. Beyond a certain number money is a means of acquiring power and influence, and it feel…

You get into Nanny zone and hiring out all your chores with more time available.

I used to that for the most part already on a third of the income (for a 2 bedroom apartment and no kids to be fair).

Biweekly maid service where they clean the dishes, the house, and do laundry. It wouldn't be much more expensive to change that to weekly and include cooking too if you wanted.

If you wanted to get a full time nanny though that's probably out of reach, but I don't understand why you even had children if you're just gonna pay someone else to raise them for you.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#99

Post by hackeraccount »

miley_cyrus wrote: post #39
zer8k wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're fighting to keep the price on rare lifesaving drugs. They are fighting to keep the price of insulin, cholesterol medication, blood pressure medication, and various other "public good medications" commonly used by medicare recipients as high as possible. Its the same tactic doctors use when dealing with medicare. I've been to several doctors that won't take it. The reasoning is obvious: your insu…

Not true: insulin is not a drug whose price is being negotiated here ( https://www.jmcp.org/doi/full/10.18553/jmcp.2023.29.3.229 ). The drugs whose prices are being negotiated are the brand new ones, the ones that took billions of dollars to develop. Without the promise of a payoff, future R&D will be halted, and humanity won't get benefit from the new medicines.

Is there a diabetic in the house?

My understanding (and I don't have the time to look this up) is that insulin is complicated. It's not a single thing - and variations are currently being developed.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#100

Post by hackeraccount »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #42
miley_cyrus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we dictate a price on whatever industry you happen to be in? Maybe your product cost billions of dollars to develop, but how about we force you to sell it to everyone for peanuts? There is no logical reason that pharma should be on the receiving end of all this hate. Especially considering that their job is literally to save lives.

> How about we dictate a price on whatever industry you happen to be in? Maybe your product cost billions of dollars to develop, but how about we force you to sell it to everyone for peanuts? If I work in an industry where human life depends on it, yes! I entirely agree . This is not a market to corner, regardless of your innovation and how clever you are. > Especially considering that their job is literally to save…

If I don't have a house I can't live.

If I don't have food I can't live.

There are any number of industries that people need to live. You really want Donald Trump (or someone just as crazy) dictating what the prices are for those industries?

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