Project Aria 'Digital Twin' Dataset by Meta • Hacker News Board

Re: Project Aria 'Digital Twin' Dataset by Meta

#91

Post by js8 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 11:58 AM UTC

guy98238710 wrote: post #64

js8 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from what ethbr0 said, which I agree, that you're blaming the victim, I want to address the "learned helplessness" idea. I heard recently that's actually wrong. We are born helpless, and learning to take control. The helplessness is innate, and we learn to overcome it. In democracy, the innate helplessness of citizens is overcome by learning to participate in governance - activism, elections, public functions a…

You are definitely not born helpless. Babies keep screaming until they get what they want. They also tirelessly try to master mobility. Learned helplessness would mean they wouldn't even try crying or moving.

I think you're arguing beside my point, I am referring to psychological concept of "learned helplessness", and how is that wrong. That concept doesn't imply that helpless people fall into a total coma, it just means that they don't attempt certain things.

Re: Project Aria 'Digital Twin' Dataset by Meta

#92

Post by js8 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 12:05 PM UTC

explaininjs wrote: post #55

js8 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from what ethbr0 said, which I agree, that you're blaming the victim, I want to address the "learned helplessness" idea. I heard recently that's actually wrong. We are born helpless, and learning to take control. The helplessness is innate, and we learn to overcome it. In democracy, the innate helplessness of citizens is overcome by learning to participate in governance - activism, elections, public functions a…

Please don’t tell me you’re unironically arguing “learned helplessness” doesn’t exist because you “learned” you’re born “helpless” and the only path to actualizing change as an individual is through the official government sanctioned mechanisms… because if that is your honest argument… wow. For reference, in my experience, the public works projects that get front page news coverage with tons of anecdotes from locals…

I am not sure what your argument is. I explicitly list activism as one of the options, so I don't claim you have to always go through official channels.

But especially in democracy, you have a lot of opportunities to use official ways to institute change, like being elected or vote.

I also think there is plenty of positive social change that happens non-violently.

Re: Project Aria 'Digital Twin' Dataset by Meta

#93

Post by PaulHoule » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #81

PaulHoule wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you prove that they respect your preferences in those consent theater pop ups? I think those pop ups are the worst thing that ever happened to the web because they eliminated the moral authority that anyone had to say “it is user hostile to use pop ups”. Once the EU made it appear “required” and even “laudable” or “prosocial” there was no basis to say “you shouldn’t put this other popup in that will make user…

Point. I suppose the formalism around popups, and specifically when the EU decided to start levying fines on entities who used dark patterns to avoid the spirit of "accept/reject must be equally easy to click", convinced me that user-visible was a better way to win the fight. Granted, it's not a technically optimal solution, but it may be a politically optimal one. Vis-a-vis the people vs the advertising industry. I'…

It does make visible how absurd the situation is. You might imagine an advertising system would require one or two cookies but it's so shocking to see that some ordinary site would have 40 third part cookies. Some of that is the use of these embeds from the likes of Facebook, Twitter and YouTube and some of it is the "knives out" situation where nobody trusts anybody in the adtech universe and the answer is to have 10 different authorities collecting information and assume they can't all be colluding with each other. (e.g. everybody has a reason to understate or overstate views or clicks and naturally there is attrition in the pipeline so the numbers won't add up perfectly.)

Re: Project Aria 'Digital Twin' Dataset by Meta

#94

Post by guy98238710 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 11:38 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #91

guy98238710 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are definitely not born helpless. Babies keep screaming until they get what they want. They also tirelessly try to master mobility. Learned helplessness would mean they wouldn't even try crying or moving.

I think you're arguing beside my point, I am referring to psychological concept of "learned helplessness", and how is that wrong. That concept doesn't imply that helpless people fall into a total coma, it just means that they don't attempt certain things.

Speaking from experience, babies and toddlers will attempt to do absolutely everything, including flying (which will fail) and using smartphones (where they succeed remarkably).

Learned helplessness can by definition manifest only after you have tried something and failed. Hence you cannot have learned helplessness after being born, because you had no opportunity to try anything yet.