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Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#91

Post by onlypositive »

Thoeu388 wrote: post #50
syntaxing wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with this. I purposely do not buy anything that’s not USB-C or lightning because I like being able to bring one charger for everything. Do you have older version of the RPi4? They accidentally made the USB-C non compliant but was fixed in late 2018, early 2019. Overall, as long as you have a 100W USB-C cable, you can practically charge anything (minus the now 240W standard).

To clarify: I want both. I only buy laptops with barrel jack and USB-C. The same with mini PCs. It is OK for travelling. But my portable USB-C monitors randomly switch off for power renegotiation! USB-C is not so great for stationary use. I always run into issues where all USB ports can not be fully powered, despite sufficient power rating on USB-C adapter. Older Macbooks would even discharge, while plugged, USB-C co…

> Cheaper are highly questionable and not even grounded!

Hey man, I like the light vibrations I get when I rest my forearms below the keyboard at night.

Nope.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#92

Post by sudosysgen »

trashcanman wrote: post #82
senknvd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M2 can't match the 7840HS in CPU performance though[1]. It's half as fast in multi-core benchmarks and a bit slower in single-core. [1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/M2-vs-R7-7840HS_14521_14948.24...

Yes but the AMD design draws double the power even though it was fabbed on a lower process node. I mean it defeats the purpose of a portable. Now you need double the battery weight or lose half the runtime. No, the M2 still wins. If processing is the goal at the expense of portability then you can buy a nice 64 core EPYC system for $1700

Double the power for double the performance indicates you can use a different scheduler if you don't need performance.

Also, the CPU isn't the only powerdraw in a system, in my use the screen alone averages more power draw.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#93

Post by sudosysgen »

trashcanman wrote: post #70
Rebelgecko wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the comparison look like with 2TB of storage? And maybe a bit more RAM (I don't think MBAs let you upgrade after purchase so buying a 512GB machine seems shortsighted for a lot of use cases unless all your development is in the cloud)

The storage and memory upgrades are expensive and also have a penalty in terms of power. Memory draws the same current regardless of if it’s being used and that is significant. Unified memory is also very different, has much higher bandwidth than RAM and lower latency. You can’t compare unified memory with RAM. As far as the SSD, the base option comes with one 256GB NAND flash IC, where if you upgrade to 512GB they h…

Unified memory literally is RAM. It's just LPDDR5. It might have better timings, due to being located closer, that's it. The framework 16 also does DDR5-5600, so you get 100GB/s of bandwidth with a dual rank memory setup.

In theory you'd take a latency hit, but in reality (at least the M1) was limited by it's memory controller and had DRAM latencies of ~100ns, which is actually worse than Zen 4 at ~70ns. This is because before querying RAM, you first need to query every level of cache, and then you hit the latency of the DRAM itself, so the actual distance is not a dominant factor.

So no, unified memory doesn't give any actual performance advantage. It could in theory (and marginally), in practice it's just marketing.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#94

Post by washadjeffmad »

senknvd wrote: post #75
washadjeffmad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being snarky or anything, but do you have easy access to broadband internet where you are, or do you live in a locale that prohibits VPN? It turned out more effective for me to buy a Chromebook and build a remote workstation to do actual work from, with the added benefit that I don't care if my Chromebook is lost or stolen because it doesn't store any data and costs less than a screen replacement ( I also wasn't…

Which Chromebook did you go with? And what tools (IDEs, debuggers, etc.) do you use for development?

admittedly, my primary role hasn't been development in over a decade, so nothing fancy. primarily vim with plugins, good integrations, and native compilers/utilities, and Microcenter or Costco special Chromebooks (14" 1080p matte screen, plenty of ports, and uSD). besides some native Linux utilities, the Chromebooks just run a browser for guacamole and some other hosted services.

I'm very interested by the Framework Chromebook, but it's a bit excessive for my needs. I'm also provided a lot of Apple hardware, which I'll use in the office.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#95

Post by washadjeffmad »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #87
washadjeffmad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being snarky or anything, but do you have easy access to broadband internet where you are, or do you live in a locale that prohibits VPN? It turned out more effective for me to buy a Chromebook and build a remote workstation to do actual work from, with the added benefit that I don't care if my Chromebook is lost or stolen because it doesn't store any data and costs less than a screen replacement ( I also wasn't…

That’s a great idea. Thanks, I’ll seriously consider it. I’m skeptical of the network usage though. I might need to use cellular with this approach, does this result in high usage?

that's based on your compression and what you're transferring, so it depends on your definition of "high" (ie- cost, likely to exceed an "unlimited" plan, etc).

I haven't exceeded 1GB/mo on cellular in over a year, but I also have easy access to wifi.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#96

Post by trashcanman »

onlypositive wrote: post #88
trashcanman wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The storage and memory upgrades are expensive and also have a penalty in terms of power. Memory draws the same current regardless of if it’s being used and that is significant. Unified memory is also very different, has much higher bandwidth than RAM and lower latency. You can’t compare unified memory with RAM. As far as the SSD, the base option comes with one 256GB NAND flash IC, where if you upgrade to 512GB they h…

Do you work for apple?

no but maybe I should lol

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#97

Post by 7e »

You can upgrade each individual component, except that all the components are low volume bespoke, so you'd save more money upgrading all of them at once by buying a new laptop and selling your old one. In which case, you get a more integrated, lighter solution. And you can't upgrade the screen.

Pass. I'm not so poor that I'm eating cat food and rummaging through trash for aluminum cans. I'm not the target market for this laptop.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#98

Post by syntaxing »

wildrhythms wrote: post #86
syntaxing wrote: post #27

How are the trackpads on these? The trackpad on the MacBook is probably one of the main reasons I can’t go back to another laptop.

I have a M1 Macbook Air and a Framework 13, and the trackpad is objectively worse on the Framework. A little mushy, a little inconsistent in the click pressure needed across the surface, palm rejection is still an unsolved problem it seems, and I haven't found a Linux DE that can do three-finger drag and other gestures as naturally as the Macbook has been doing it for over a decade. :/ I hardly ever use the thing now…

Have you used PopOS? Yeah, the battery life and efficiency is amazing on the M1. I wonder if the new Ryzen 7 APU on these will be better.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#99

Post by syntaxing »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #57
syntaxing wrote: post #27

How are the trackpads on these? The trackpad on the MacBook is probably one of the main reasons I can’t go back to another laptop.

On previous generations I think it's decent. The main annoyances are that when I touch the glass a certain way I can feel a scratch or divot, and the pressure it takes to click varies based on where you click. Overall I think the hardware is great, my complaints are mostly with software/firmware/BIOS. My biggest complaints are with battery life, especially during standby. Framework has been working on a fix since 202…

Battery life is probably my biggest reservation. The fact the MBP/MBA has 20 hrs of USAGE is unbeatable still. How is the power suspend? I had huge issues with Linux laptops, if I left it unplugged, the battery would drain 10% a day where it seems like a couple % on MacOS

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#100

Post by Aerbil313 »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #95
Aerbil313 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a great idea. Thanks, I’ll seriously consider it. I’m skeptical of the network usage though. I might need to use cellular with this approach, does this result in high usage?

that's based on your compression and what you're transferring, so it depends on your definition of "high" (ie- cost, likely to exceed an "unlimited" plan, etc). I haven't exceeded 1GB/mo on cellular in over a year, but I also have easy access to wifi.

Thanks! I was skeptical, but I took the time to actually compare Framework, Macbook and custom remote workstation on these metrics: battery life, security against theft and accidents, high speed networking, upgradability, repairability, compatibility (eg. external Nvidia GPU, coreboot), offline use, performance and weight. Remote won on every metric (has no single drawback) except offline use, which is not a problem when you are at home. So I decided on doing this. If you don’t mind, how do you connect? What is your setup? Are you able to eg. forward USB devices to the workstation?
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