Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
91–100 of 236 posts
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention, I think people are going to look back at something with a 1% death rate and wonder why we panicked so hard. Various winter viruses kill on the same order of magnitude, and they kill the same old, obese, sick population. I'm a bit worried we will have something awful, killing healthy people or large swaths 5-20% of the population, and we will be too desensitized to care. It def seems like it was a poli…
COVID was the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021 in the US and kills an order of magnitude more than the flu typically does.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
False positives.
These are exceedingly rare, like almost never happen.
I wrote about this problem back in 2020 when it started becoming apparent that the public health establishment wasn't attempting to stop or even measure COVID PCR test false positives, because they had simply defined the problem out of existence [1]. Yet dig into the literature a bit and you discover that FPs are a well known problem that have occurred many times before.
There are at least three problems and arguably more:
1. Scope limits. Scientists have an extremely myopic view of what counts as an FP somewhat akin to "that's not a bug it's a feature" in the software world. Sample contaminated somewhere along the line from collection to machine? Maybe even when the sample brushed up against the outside of the machine itself, or the skin of a lab worker? Not a false positive in their view, because the PCR test itself is finding the RNA fragment it's looking for. PCR detects virus your immune system already destroyed? Not a false positive, because the test is actually looking for RNA so begins with a lysis stage that breaks open the viral capsid anyway. Results got mixed up in a shoddy IT system? Not a false positive because the "test" is just the machine they operate, not the whole infrastructure the public interacts with.
2. Over-sensitivity. COVID PCR tests were run at thresholds normally considered way too sensitive for normal usage, which is why they were so frequently triggering for weeks after a patient seemed to have fully recovered. Even with CTs ~25 these tests were pre-2020 run in extremely controlled labs with specialized air handling equipment and the like, to try and avoid FPs, but COVID tests were being routinely run in ad-hoc labs with CTs of over 40 and each additional cycle is twice as sensitive as the last!
3. Circular logic. Normally medicine is careful to keep pathogen and disease separate. It's important because some diseases ("collections of symptoms") can be caused by multiple pathogens, or no pathogen, and many people become infected with a pathogen yet never develop disease. In the very early days of COVID the distinction between disease and causative agent was kept properly separated because diagnosis was done by doctors, but this didn't survive contact with the public health establishment. They wanted a mass-scale system in the incorrect belief that they could slow down spread this way (there's no link in the data between testing levels and outcomes). Once mass PCR testing started the definition of COVID became circular: A positive test means you have COVID, but COVID was defined as having a positive test.
It's obvious what happens if you define COVID this way: the tests can by definition never have false positives. On what basis can you dispute the accuracy of the test if the test and not disease is defined to be ground truth? Using this approach, false positives always become "asymptomatic cases" that inconveniently never become sick and thus are not a case under classical medical reasoning. This is what led to bizarre claims coming from health authorities, like the claim that the tests had FP rates of zero. But it's not reality.
As I document in the essay, we know PCR results have FPs because there have been "pseudo-epidemics" in the past where ordinary coughs and colds were mis-diagnosed as outbreaks of dangerous diseases due to bad PCR results, and because lab challenges have often returned failures i.e. labs were submitted samples known to contain just ordinary rhinovirus or whatever and came back with positive SARS-CoV-2 results. There were also cases where reagent mixups caused false results, or where PCR tests returned results that switched between negative and positive then back to negative from samples taken back to back and so on. None of these were ever really investigated or root caused.
And all that's before you get into the systems that surround the labs. I got a PCR certificate for someone else's name at one point, almost certainly a form autofill mistake (I saw workers wrestling with this problem when they lost my wife's results). When I complained I got a new certificate in under 5 minutes for my own name this time but now the results were signed off by a different doctor i.e. the signatures supposedly demonstrating expert supervision of the test were just being randomly picked by software.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#94Duh, they only detect levels of viral load sufficient to make a person infectious, around 1e6 RNA copies per cc of fluid. And viral load tends to peak somewhere in the 1e10 to 1e14 range, people at 1e6 really have to work at coughing directly on to growth plates to create a sample. Back in the early days of Covid-19 people didn't typically begin displaying symptoms visible without an x-ray until they'd nearly reach t…
> Duh, they only detect levels of viral load sufficient to make a person infectious, Then how do you explain this: > However, repeating the test 3 times, 48 hours apart, led to detection of infections in 75% of asymptomatic participants.
Let’s ignore the time aspect, and assume that the test has only a 35% chance of returning positive for an infected but asymptomatic patient.
Repeat that test 3 times, and the chances of at least one returning positive jumps to 73%.
(That’s why there are two tests in most rapid test boxes. You’re supposed to test twice, 24 hours apart, to improve the chances of a positive result if you are indeed infected.)
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely the point of most of those policies was to use rapid tests to ensure you weren't being infections at that moment or close to it. I honestly don't know what's so controversial about them.
I can figure out for myself if I have symptoms or not
That's not the point. You and I both know that not everyone will be upfront about symptoms. The tests are there to attempt to cut down on this.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention, I think people are going to look back at something with a 1% death rate and wonder why we panicked so hard. Various winter viruses kill on the same order of magnitude, and they kill the same old, obese, sick population. I'm a bit worried we will have something awful, killing healthy people or large swaths 5-20% of the population, and we will be too desensitized to care. It def seems like it was a poli…
COVID was the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021 in the US and kills an order of magnitude more than the flu typically does.
For example, even as early as June of 2020, the public health authority in Canada's most-populous city (with the fourth highest population in North America) revealed that the counting of deaths was being done using a methodology that sounds quite dubious:
"Individuals who have died with COVID-19, but not as a result of COVID-19 are included in the case counts for COVID-19 deaths in Toronto."
https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/127588839006028596...
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#97this means that level of endemic infection was reached much sooner than claimed by pretty much all western governments AND it means that case fatality or even just case i'm-not-feeling-well rate is so low that this so called pandemic probably never really was a problem either to begin with or at least since omicron.
I guess you missed the part with overwhelmed hospitals and mass burials.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#98Horrifying.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
COVID was the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021 in the US and kills an order of magnitude more than the flu typically does.
Typically it’s the influenza-related pneumonia that does the killing, not the flu.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#100Referenced paper: https://doi.org/10.7326/M23-0385 Not much behind the paywall of the article OP linked: “Rapid antigen tests are much more reliable at detecting COVID-19 in people with symptoms than in those without, finds the largest study to compare home rapid tests with gold-standard PCR tests1. Apurv Soni at the UMass Chan Medical School in Worcester, Massachusetts, and his colleagues, followed 5,353 initially u…
>The authors say that an informational campaign about the proper way to take rapid tests might help to preserve public confidence in the tests’ utility.” Why do we have to spend tax payer money for a campaign to try and force people to care about the utility of a product that can't accurately detect a symptomless virus. Honestly starting to forget it was ever even a thing.
Let a particularly fun strain catch you like it did to me. Then you can't smell anything, everything tastes off, and you fall asleep in the middle of the day for no reason.
It's been a great two years!