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The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

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Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#91

Post by Mystery-Machine »

tomjen3 wrote: post #58
microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second proposed legislation from the article seems to require that at least 5 years of updates must be provided after the device was last sold. This is far more than many low-end and mid-range Android phones, moreover many Android phone manufacturers start counting after the device was released, not last sold. Interestingly, they also seem to put upper bounds on how quickly these updates should be rolled out. Eg.…

Is it? It is going to meant that Android can't take advantage of the high end features of the new phones that are being released, and that old and slow phones are going to get updates that makes them run even slower. To top it of, it is not like manufacturers are into throwing away money, so this will likely mean that prices on the cheapest phones will increase more.

This is great because the more expensive phones get, the less likely people will want to replace their 2-year old phone with a new one.

Plus, those new high end features...there have been barely any new features in a smartphone in the last 5+ years (I'm exaggerating a bit of course). Check out Fairphone. That's an interesting project!

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#92

Post by kaba0 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #85
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is interesting that the EU only wants to regulate markets that they are not participating in. The EU only regulates markets they are participating in. The only country that regulates markets that they do not participate in is the United States, and for the most part they seem to be doing so for fairly good reasons (such as with the anti money laundering and anti terrorism financing laws). Though of course you ar…

Why are you ignoring what he means for an alternate interpretation of that particular sentence? He explicitly clarified that he’s talking about the EU not making smartphones. Your reply is more like hijacking his comment than actually conversing.

The EU doesn’t produce anything. You know, not everything works by lobbying on this side of the pond.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#93

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

progfix wrote: post #81
f6v wrote: post #28

I don’t know. I already have to click cookie buttons on every goddamn web site I visit, it’s annoying as hell. These EU initiatives can be a bit pointless. Battery needs to be replaced like once every 2-3 years. Why change the device design to make battery user-replaceable when I can bring it to the repair shop?

> Why change the device design to make battery user-replaceable when I can bring it to the repair shop? You'd rather go to a repair shop and pay a service fee for something that you can probably do in a couple of minutes at home?

>You'd rather go to a repair shop and pay a service fee for something that you can probably do in a couple of minutes at home?

HN userbase in a nutshell

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#94

Post by thesnide »

The battery is indeed the HW part that has the most decay.

But in that 5y time-frame the SW part is the one that is the most problematic.

It would be nice to be able to replace the ROM easily after the EOL of the device.

Will self-regulate itself immediately, as then incentives to have longer life is real and you cannot force customers to just buy another device because you decided it's time.

By "replace ROM easily" it means that one has the access (keys) and documentation to do it.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#95

Post by nonethewiser »

adhvaryu wrote: post #23
mantas wrote: post #9

Iphone battery is already pretty close to replaceable by this law. You need a common tool to get in (trident screwdriver is available in most DIY shops), then glue tabs can be pried by hand. Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line?

> Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line? Start by not requiring a screwdriver in the process of changing batteries. I remember the early days of Samsung/Android phones where you only needed to pry open the back cover using your nail and the battery was easily taken out. It's a small change but the layman will be way less afraid.

> Start by not requiring a screwdriver in the process of changing batteries.

Thats not actually part of the law though, is it?

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#96

Post by makeitdouble »

tomjen3 wrote: post #61
layer8 wrote: post #46

Interestingly, the regulation apparently also applies to small devices like smart watches and wireless earbuds.

That's not great - those devices really do not have space for a replaceable battery. And no, I don't want them bigger than they already are.

Replaceability is not about space but design.

In particular this legislation lets the maker build sealed and compact products as long as there's a reasonable way to open them and replace the battery.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#97

Post by superkuh »

ekianjo wrote: post #19
seba_dos1 wrote: post #2

I have never used a phone (nor a laptop) where the battery wasn't easily replaceable and to be honest I can't really imagine using one. Batteries can (and do) go bad and start expanding. Using a device where the battery isn't easily accessible feels absolutely distressing.

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there.

I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people cannot make choices for themselves and violence must be used by the state to get them to make the correct choices. That's nasty and a very slippery slope to authoritarianism. As a human person with volition I simply chose not to buy bad, anti-consumer devices. It is possible. And I do it without the government threatening violence on my behalf.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#98

Post by kaba0 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #88
croes wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cookie banners are the fault of the website owners. They did this on purpose so the users would blame the laws. Could have simple valued the Do-Not-Track flag but they didn't want to.

If thats true then their competitors will gladly not ask for permission and enjoy higher user satisfaction and the banners will disappear due to that long term. But we all know thats bullshit and the law actually did cause this.

It’s almost like “the user will choose the best product” is bullshit. It has never been true, people are not rational agents, otherwise marketing wouldn’t work at all.

The best we have is to define small markets with strict regulations - within that some competition can happen that will tend to raise better products.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#99

Post by tomjen3 »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #77
tomjen3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? It is going to meant that Android can't take advantage of the high end features of the new phones that are being released, and that old and slow phones are going to get updates that makes them run even slower. To top it of, it is not like manufacturers are into throwing away money, so this will likely mean that prices on the cheapest phones will increase more.

If the hardware was more open it wouldn’t even be a problem. People could pick and choose ROMs best suited for their phones and use cases, just like Linux. Newer phones could use bleeding edge features for their HW, and older phones could use more stripped down versions to preserve battery life.

That is the first good suggestion I have seen in this thread. We just need to make it illegal to not allow you app to run on an open device.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#100

Post by kaba0 »

superkuh wrote: post #97
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there. I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people can…

Come on, what a stupid take.. what violence? Let’s also call out the EU next for “using violence” and disallows selling grinded shit as food.. capitalism doesn’t work without rules, period!

It’s as per the very Adam Smith! Libertarianism is absolutely divorced from reality.

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