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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

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Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#91

Post by cand0r »

Kapura wrote: post #24

I've been watching mechanic channels on YouTube recently when I need some background noise, and It's very interesting to see them do their once overs on the car, and hear their initial theories get confirmed or disconfirmed as they move through the vehicle. You can feel their experience for the sorts of issues that are likely or unlikely, and the focus on root cause (whether a botched repair job or something broken f…

The Just Rolled In channel is good for a laugh. Although it is a little terrifying knowing that these people are on the road with you.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#92

Post by cand0r »

BluePen7 wrote: post #74
bityard wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the medical field refer to motorcycle riders pejoratively as "organ donors". Which is fair, given how most riders I see out on the road have zero concern for their own safety, let alone others.

Even as a rider myself, just seeing how others ride I'd agree. If you're going to go twice the speed people are expecting a vehicle to go, in a space nobody expected a vehicle to fit, in a vehicle that offers none of the usual protections, your luck may run out sooner than average. It's frustrating because everyone wanted to cite the statistics at me when I started riding, but I just wished I could get those stats fi…

[flagged]

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#93

Post by michaelt »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
Fradow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

> So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle.

This is the other reason a lot of people will do their own motorbike maintenance - for a lot of people, the motorbike is the second vehicle.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#94

Post by WheatMillington »

taeric wrote: post #63
korse wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key is that motorcycle riding hooks you into the machine in a way that few car builds can replicate. Motorcycle maintenance and riding is a tighter loop, with far higher stakes if simple procedures are not followed. Troubleshooting may be similar across all machines, but the best troubleshooting is not having to do it at all. If nothing else, the tight loop created by the motorcycle teaches preventative m…

This feels largely like a post-hoc justification for what is clearly more of a hobby. That is, the miles you have put into a car "at speed" is almost certainly far greater than what you put your motorcycle through. For reasons of the car giving much more utility of use. And the fact that you still have a motorcycle is clearly a choice. One that you have to put effort into keeping up. That you would also choose to see…

What a weird comment to make towards someone you know virtually nothing about. I'm not the person you responded to, but I put about the same number of k's on my motorcycle as on my car, more in summer. I consider my bike just as indispensible as my car, and don't at all consider it just a hobby.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#95

Post by radiorental »

taeric wrote: post #72
ben7799 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean modern motorcycles weren't more complicated than older motorcycles. It's just nowhere near as severe as cars where the manufacturers are ultra hostile to the owner working on the car and even do their best to make it hard for independent mechanics & shops to work on it. If cars were like motorcycles I doubt we'd have movements for right to repair.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

They have, at least the high end KTMs and BMWs. You simply can't work on them yourself anymore.

Fortunately there's a constant flow of user friendly "low end" bikes coming out of Japan, India and China.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#96

Post by radiorental »

ben7799 wrote: post #66
taeric wrote: post #3

I find the root premise flawed. I have known many people that loved working on cars. The plethora of very old vehicles where I live kind of holds that up, as well. My truck is 23 years old, and I'm positive it isn't even close to the oldest around here. Even closer to the general idea, the radio show "Car Talk" was less about cars than the name would have implied. Would love to see it revived in spirit. That said, st…

Lots of jobs you can do on a motorcycle yourself in a garage are like 100x harder on a car so it's nowhere near as accessible. Stuff like needing a lift, or needing a hoist to lift heavy parts like the engine or transmission. And even almost new motorcycles have minimal computer/electronic issues where the manufacturer is hiding how to do things. Get the Service manual and it tells you basically everything except how…

Right! just last night I had a couple of free hours and thought... 'you know, I really should do a preventative valve check on my honda 450'. Youtube step by step to the right, cold beer to the left. Just bliss.

About the ECU. Bikes are becoming increasingly hobbled by emissions compliant ECUs. The aftermarket ECU options allow you to tune the bike the way you want. I'm not talking diesel-gate here either. My Honda ECU was getting me 40mpg, my aftermarket is getting 50-60 mpg but with maybe higher CO2 per gallon??? I dont understand what the rules/laws are optimising for?

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#97

Post by slicktux »

taeric wrote: post #64
tonymet wrote: post #54

There is a major step change in maintenance difficulty from motorcycles to cars . motorcycles are more exposed and intimate so it’s easier to detect issues earlier . Modern cars have adopted more non-user-serviceable tech. Intermediate procedures like clutch replacement , brake maintenance , tune ups are accessible to beginners on a motorcycle . in general motorcycle maintenance is more accessible due to the open dri…

Careful, there. Modern motorcycles are probably beyond many home mechanics, as well. Similarly, if it is for the hobby, older cars are fine. And if you don't trust the shop you are taking your vehicle to for rigorous standards, you should probably look into a different shop. :(

I recently took a car in for a clutch master cylinder replacement. It’s was for a Honda with a 4cylinder and it was buried inside the engine cabin below hydraulic ABS and the Break Master Cylinder; I’m mechanically inclined but this time I was too busy to make time for replacing it myself.

I get the car back and the idle is rough…it stalls (car is running lean)when disengaging the clutch and oddly enough brake booster vacuum is completely lost when it stalls…(not normal as breaking should work for a couple of pumps before stiffening the pedal). Almost crashed…

Anyhow I open the hood check all vacuum hoses for cracks or improper connections. Long story short the mechanic forgot to put the break master cylinders coupling gasket back on the brake booster was letting in unmeasured air causing it to lean and stall; which also caused me to loose breaking when stalled. Worst case scenario.

Honest mistake probably but I feel like the shop mechanic may have been rushing and completely messed up. Luckily I caught it. So yea I don’t trust most shops mechanics…

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#98

Post by taeric »

slicktux wrote: post #97
taeric wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, there. Modern motorcycles are probably beyond many home mechanics, as well. Similarly, if it is for the hobby, older cars are fine. And if you don't trust the shop you are taking your vehicle to for rigorous standards, you should probably look into a different shop. :(

I recently took a car in for a clutch master cylinder replacement. It’s was for a Honda with a 4cylinder and it was buried inside the engine cabin below hydraulic ABS and the Break Master Cylinder; I’m mechanically inclined but this time I was too busy to make time for replacing it myself. I get the car back and the idle is rough…it stalls (car is running lean)when disengaging the clutch and oddly enough brake booste…

Do you have any reason to think that this is more common in shops than in home mechanic things? Because, "left over parts" is a stupid common thing that I have heard from all teardown and rebuild projects. To the point that I'm willing to wager it is more common for home repairs than it is for shop run repairs.

Further, you can always split it. Hire them to do it, but then you inspect it when done. If you are good enough that you can inspect after you did the work, you can inspect after anyone else did, too. Right?

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#99

Post by taeric »

WheatMillington wrote: post #94
taeric wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels largely like a post-hoc justification for what is clearly more of a hobby. That is, the miles you have put into a car "at speed" is almost certainly far greater than what you put your motorcycle through. For reasons of the car giving much more utility of use. And the fact that you still have a motorcycle is clearly a choice. One that you have to put effort into keeping up. That you would also choose to see…

What a weird comment to make towards someone you know virtually nothing about. I'm not the person you responded to, but I put about the same number of k's on my motorcycle as on my car, more in summer. I consider my bike just as indispensible as my car, and don't at all consider it just a hobby.

I said it sounds like it. Meaning that, on my priors of every other experience I have with folks that have a motorcycle, it sounds like this.

If you are putting the same number of miles on a motorcycle as a car, you either don't have to drive much, or are in some other very fringe situation. Pretty much period. Yes, it can and does happen. It is in a minority of cases though. Happy to be shown data that this is not the case, of course.

Edit: I got mixed on some other posts, I didn't say this one "sounds like it." Apologies for the odd rephrasing in this post. I stand by everyone that has every pushed this idea forward to me does so in what feels like a post-hoc justification.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#100

Post by squalo »

As someone who read Zen the first time many years ago, the book talks about the joy you get from seeing the world on a motorcycle (or bicycle) over being in a tank like car where you don't fully experience your environment. At its heart though, Pirsig used the concept of motorcycle maintenance as an examination of quality, value, and what brings people fulfillment. It takes a meandering path to get there which is probably why so many people don't finish it. The most memorable thing in the book for me was the topic of gumption and how it can so easily be destroyed. In my work in tech, gumption traps are everywhere. Reading this book made me recognize them so that I could logically decide my next action rather than making an emotional decision.

I wish I was articulate enough to properly detail how really interesting the book is even for someone who has absolutely zero interest in maintaining a combustion engine

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