Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 138 posts

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#91

Post by jjoonathan »

idiocrat wrote: post #19
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't airplane outlets just limit how much watts come out? I'm not an electrical engineer, I don't know much about these things, but I'd assume they have protection built-in to just cap out instead of blow a fuse if something draws too much power.

The trick with my Lenovo 300W notebook in the airplanes is as following. At first, with the adapter disconnected from the notebook, I charge the capacitors inside of the adapter by connecting and re-connecting repeatedly (1-2 seconds intervals). The first 5 times the breaker trips, but eventually the capacitors are charged, so no initial high current is drawn from the socket, and the breaker is happy. Only then I con…

Oh so this is how airplane sockets get that way.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#92

Post by ycombinete »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

I have a 180w gaming laptop, and would love even just having a GAN charger for it with a barrel Jack. But they’re hard to find at that wattage, never mind a usb-c one.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#93

Post by ilyt »

derefr wrote: post #48
ilyt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...ohm's law ? P = U * I. Yall skipped high school physics or something? USB cables can only get so thick. And voltages only can get so high to not be dangerous to people.

It's not really the thickness of the cable, is it? The constrained part, that has to stay the same regardless of what cable you buy, is the thickness of the pins on the connector. Where, presumably, any resistive heat from that connection is dumped into the body of the device being charged (just like resistive heat from operating a 1600W space heater with a big, thick extension cable gets dumped into your the electri…

The pins go very short way so even if the resistance of them is far higher than a cable they are pretty short to dissipate any significant power. At least from my experience in sketchy connections. But yeah, definitely another limit here

Voltage too, at some point it would just be too close for the voltage and would start arcing.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#94

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

LukeShu wrote: post #88
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>pimple-popper camera Excuse me but, what?!

Specifically, this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09HTWH46C/ It's much easier than trying to hold a mirror with one hand so I can see what I'm doing with the other hand.

Holy cow, that's a more important invention for humanity than that Apple VR headset.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#95

Post by crote »

phil21 wrote: post #66
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

It's already starting, I've noticed. I've gotten a few very random devices lately they would traditionally have been powered by a custom barrel jack, that are now USB-C instead. One was a cheap light up dog collar, and I've recently picked up a soldering iron with it. I expect the trend to continue as it's likely cheaper to toss in a single USB-C port and controller chip than it is to supply a power brick. I can see…

Part of it could be due to the EU legislating USB-C for charging on quite a few consumer products. Shipping a charger, let alone a proprietary charger, is rapidly starting to become a con rather than a pro.

And USB-C is starting to become dirt-cheap to implement on the device side. 500mA @ 5V can be done without any controller chip whatsoever, and you can do up to 3A @ 5V without active communication. It's just easier to use USB-C than it is to mess around with a custom power brick!

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#96

Post by gorbypark »

phil21 wrote: post #66
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

It's already starting, I've noticed. I've gotten a few very random devices lately they would traditionally have been powered by a custom barrel jack, that are now USB-C instead. One was a cheap light up dog collar, and I've recently picked up a soldering iron with it. I expect the trend to continue as it's likely cheaper to toss in a single USB-C port and controller chip than it is to supply a power brick. I can see…

The big problem I’ve found is a lot of “cheap” things that have usb c don’t support PD. I have some hair clippers, a flashlight, some wireless ear buds and a semi expensive electric screw driver (from Lidl!) that have usb c but only charge with a usb a to c cables. It is infuriating.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#97

Post by ilyt »

rektide wrote: post #59
ilyt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, just not for "AC wall voltage". It could simply drop the voltage and expect the other device to say start limiting current when it goes 5% or more below nominal voltage. Akin to how MPPT works on solar chargers It "just" requires both sides to support that. Which won't happen as we already have USB-C if you want to negotiate the power usage.

We could invent other signaling strategies too. Maybe we lower the voltage by 5% as a "low" signal. Now we can yell at the device in binary, and more explicitly spell out the conditions. Maybe the source sends S-O-S in Morse code. Maybe it sends a requested max power. We can invent signalling strategies to communicate yes. EV chargers use HomePlug Green for example to commitcate. This could be consumerized & put into…

If we wanted to go entirely analog just simple CV/CC on the power source side (meaning "keep constant voltage up till max amps, then start dropping voltage) + MPPT-like controller on the sink is enough. That's easy enough to be done on off-the shelf chips.

>We can invent signalling strategies to communicate yes. EV chargers use HomePlug Green for example to commitcate. This could be consumerized & put into all devices, used to perform negotiations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug

I'm kinda surprised that's relatively rare approach, in-band communication like that saves 2 wires so would technically allow USB-C to get extra 20% power boost over same connector. I think I saw it used in some solar stuff to coordinated various devices of same manufacturer.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#98

Post by notatoad »

jaywalk wrote: post #64
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

there's enough cheap parts floating around now that offer standalone conversion from USB-PD to raw DC voltage. if customers are preferring USB connections, OEMs will find a way to implement it.

something like this is no more difficult to implement than a barrel plug https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005315614647.html

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#99

Post by _cenw »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

Has been happening for the sub-60W market for a long time.

Lenovo has also gradually been adding USB-PD to their gaming laptops, first at 100W and by now I believe at 140W. Though the one I use can use up to 300W and the only viable aftermarket charger is the SlimQ 240W, which can do either 2x100W PD or a range of barrel plugs (and lenovos high-wattage rectangle) on one relatively small brick.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#100

Post by ilyt »

rektide wrote: post #56
ilyt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very very achievable, with minimal effort. Not with how complicated the whole stack is... We still can't say "don't charge if other device has no AC power" even tho that info can be propagated via USB-PD...

I genuinely don't think it's that complicated. There's a perception about that, but look at the wire protocol for a couple devices & it starts to feel extremely rote extremely quick. There's a very old very extensive USB HID spec for a ton of battery & charger telemetry things, that for no good reason was never implemented. I'm not sure if USB-PD has overlapping way of sharing data like "is the other side also runnin…

> I genuinely don't think it's that complicated. There's a perception about that, but look at the wire protocol for a couple devices & it starts to feel extremely rote extremely quick.

USB-PD standard is 500+ pages. I remember some early adopters (before ready-made usb-pd controllers were available) complained about that, that the PD code was far bigger than rest of their gadget code. Hell, just look at amount of PD stuff that was subtly or not-so-subtly implemented wrong.

And it's like, they decided to invent their whole own PHY and wire protocol instead of just using CAN or one of the RSXXX ones, for no discernable gain.

Sure it is easier now but not because standard is, but because chip manufacturers made chips specifically to handle that mess...

Post reply on HN