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Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

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Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#91

Post by JohnFen »

fluoridation wrote: post #61
salawat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. How do you think we did it in the bad ole days? Don't fall for the propensity of Big Tech to scare you away from general purpose computing. If you're capable of writing, testing, and publishing an app in the first place, you have an obligation to educate the public about just what the nature of the sacrifices are that are being made by accepting a "walled garden" status quo for computing. If you're only in it fo…

If you have to educate each potential user before you can turn it into an actual user, then necessarily your userbase is going to be smaller than if you didn't require that education step.

Right, but is that actually important?

It might be, depending on what your goals are, but for a lot of developers who just want to make a good living off of their work (as opposed to becoming a millionaire), it's not really that important.

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#92

Post by Matheus28 »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #3

Its more that Google's implementation of the DMCA is broken. They have automated take downs and have a completely broken appeal process. They certainly aren't the only company failing to deal with the DMCA correctly. There are clauses in the DMCA specifically targetted at false claims, if those were enforced we might start to see a change in the system but as is the DMCA is misused too often.

Weirdly enough, it’s not automated.

I’ve recently submitted a valid DMCA against a play store app (that was simply a web view embedding my app without authorization, claiming it as theirs) and weirdly enough they emailed back saying they will not be acting on it.

So now they’ve abandoned their safe harbor and I’ll have to file a claim against Google, instead of them just doing the right thing.

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#93

Post by jeroenhd »

shakna wrote: post #4
jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Google can't exactly fix the DMCA like the dev may want, but its fake appeal process is infuriating. You can appeal the takedown to Google but no human will ever validate that the DMCA notice even makes sense. Filing a counter notice is your only option but it also hands over your personal details to whoever filed the DMCA takedown request for a potential lawsuit. This turns the DMCA mechanism into an excellent doxxi…

Last time I was looking into it, the DMCA required that the subject was taken down _before_ you did the verification of the claim. So the DMCA basically is required to be an automatic process.

Oh, for sure! The takedown itself must happen immediately because of the unbalanced nature of the DMCA.

However, the verification doesn't need to be an automatic system. Google would not be at fault if they took down the page, had someone competent enough investigate the takedown, and then make a decision. The current system doesn't even start a real investigation until you object and even then the investigation isn't exactly thorough.

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#94

Post by jeroenhd »

RobotToaster wrote: post #9
jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Google can't exactly fix the DMCA like the dev may want, but its fake appeal process is infuriating. You can appeal the takedown to Google but no human will ever validate that the DMCA notice even makes sense. Filing a counter notice is your only option but it also hands over your personal details to whoever filed the DMCA takedown request for a potential lawsuit. This turns the DMCA mechanism into an excellent doxxi…

I do wonder, if you are in Europe, you would have a claim for violation of artists' "moral rights"?*. One of those legal rights is to be published under a pseudonym or anonymously. *I don't think it's something really recognised in the USA.

As much as I like the "code is a form of expression so code is art" movement, I don't think that's legally the case.

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#95

Post by 8note »

jeroenhd wrote: post #94
RobotToaster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder, if you are in Europe, you would have a claim for violation of artists' "moral rights"?*. One of those legal rights is to be published under a pseudonym or anonymously. *I don't think it's something really recognised in the USA.

As much as I like the "code is a form of expression so code is art" movement, I don't think that's legally the case.

Isn't "code is art" table stakes for having copyright apply?

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#96

Post by lionkor »

manmal wrote: post #29
lionkor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely at risk of this. If you're added to the big bad google blocklist that all major browsers use, which of course is automated, anyone visiting your website will get a big red screen saying "this is a scam please run away". This happened to my own gitlab instance, which sees around 5 unique visitors a year, and it has happened to popular websites. The only recourse is to report the issue to google, who,…

Out of curiosity, does Google also cross-link with the dev‘s Google account? Domain A gets punished, then all other Domains of the dev get punished too? (eg when connected via ads or search console)

No idea, but fairly easy to test - seems to me like it flags self hosted stuff like gitlab as it looks like a phishing site is targeting gitlab users. Not sure what triggers it, but that's the only needed preconditions i know of

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#97

Post by jeroenhd »

8note wrote: post #95
jeroenhd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I like the "code is a form of expression so code is art" movement, I don't think that's legally the case.

Isn't "code is art" table stakes for having copyright apply?

I can't speak for any other countries, but here in the Netherlands software doesn't follow the "normal" copyright rules. For example, ripping CDs is perfectly fine but copying software requires permission from the developer. Programmers also can't apply for compensation from the private copy levy (the thing that makes us pay €6 on top of every phone so we can legally use it to play music).

This utterly ridiculous special case (as well as the plain corrupt private copy levy) doesn't necessarily exist anywhere else, but it does show that you can't just assume uniformity of copyright law.

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#98

Post by mcsniff »

busymom0 wrote: post #20
JodieBenitez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only. Way to go ! Not everything can be a web app right now, but it's getting closer every year.

With his finally adding support for web push notifications, I think we are pretty much there already. What else is missing that’s needed for most apps?

WebKit published a list of things they don't/won't add support for, so you can count them out on iOS.

https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/

I have an native app for both platforms which uses some of these because I can't do it with a webapp, I'd love for everything to be done in the browser.

Web Bluetooth

Web MIDI API

Magnetometer AP

Web NFC API

Device Memory API

Network Information API

Battery Status API

Web Bluetooth Scanning

Ambient Light Sensor

HDCP Policy Check extension for EME Proximity Sensor

WebHID

Serial API

Web USB

Geolocation Sensor (background geolocation)

User Idle Detection

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#99

Post by horeszko »

4pkjai wrote: post #5

I had an app that was making about $10,000 USD a month. It was taken down by Google because apparently I copied some other developer's iOS app. I asked them to tell me the name of the iOS app they believed I copied. They named the iOS version of my Android app. They basically accused me of copying myself because the Android version was under my company's name while the iOS version was under my name. Google unbanned t…

>>"After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only."

I agree with this, I think for reasons of independence that web browsers should be the platform for mobile as much as possible, not os specific apps.

Perhaps one day foss non-corporate smart phone operating systems will become more accessible to non-technical users, but until then web browsers are the best bet to prevent centralization/control by corporations on software distribution

Re: Google un-bans Downloader app, but developer still mad about “broken” DMCA

#100

Post by onetokeoverthe »

mrtksn wrote: post #19
taneq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better expected returns, from the sounds of it, since they’re not at risk of being arbitrarily sin-binned without recourse.

A lemon market can be worse than being banned from a market. When banned, at least you can start over or comply to get back in. When its a lemon market, there's no good market. My observation is that the web has become a lemon market and I'm curious if I'm wrong about it. Also, you can definitely get banned from the web, be it through being banned from the discovery channels or regulators. You can get banned from Twi…

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