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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#91

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jameshart wrote: post #88

The actual legislation: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billpdf/SB0419.pdf Seems facially unconstitutional. Will maybe force a proper court decision on whether the Bills of Attainder clause applies to corporations. Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like? Don't like data about your constituents being in the possession of a company wit…

> Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like

There are two issues with TikTok: privacy and national security. The latter is what this is about. (Related to e.g. our foreign media ownership rules.)

The federal legislation is trying to create an extensible system for forcing divestiture based on requirements you describe. This is more ham fisted.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#94

Post by jameshart »

falcolas wrote: post #87

My only consolation in this shitstorm is that it's been expanded to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary." So, yeah. I guess it's time to shut 'em all down. Now we just wait for the "I didn't mean American companies" retraction.

Where do you see that? As far as I can tell from the Montana legislature site, this motion to amend it along those lines failed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF

The 'current bill text' is this: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm

And what it covers is:

Tiktok may not operate within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana. An entity violates this prohibition when any of the following occurs within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana:

(a) the operation of tiktok by the company or users; or

(b) the option to download the tiktok mobile application by a mobile application store.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#95

Post by jameshart »

edgyquant wrote: post #89
jameshart wrote: post #88

The actual legislation: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billpdf/SB0419.pdf Seems facially unconstitutional. Will maybe force a proper court decision on whether the Bills of Attainder clause applies to corporations. Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like? Don't like data about your constituents being in the possession of a company wit…

Countries have the right to ban foreign adversaries. US companies are a different problem with different solutions.

Do states?

(edit - oops, see correction below) There's nothing in this law that would unban TikTok if its ownership were transferred to a US corporation.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#96

Post by falcolas »

jameshart wrote: post #94
falcolas wrote: post #87

My only consolation in this shitstorm is that it's been expanded to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary." So, yeah. I guess it's time to shut 'em all down. Now we just wait for the "I didn't mean American companies" retraction.

Where do you see that? As far as I can tell from the Montana legislature site, this motion to amend it along those lines failed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF The 'current bill text' is this: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm And what it covers is: Tiktok may not operate within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana. An entity violates this prohibition when any of the follo…

Greg Gianforte's own words, as recorded here:

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#97

Post by dboreham »

Installed the app last night. It would be interesting to see their DAU graph for the state!

Something worthwhile noting here is that the usual "politicians don't understand the technology" sentiment doesn't apply here because our governor at least knows how to code Perl, and ran a software company.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#98

Post by jameshart »

falcolas wrote: post #96
jameshart wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see that? As far as I can tell from the Montana legislature site, this motion to amend it along those lines failed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF The 'current bill text' is this: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm And what it covers is: Tiktok may not operate within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana. An entity violates this prohibition when any of the follo…

Greg Gianforte's own words, as recorded here: https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban

Refers to a separate ban - just a gubernatorial directive - that bans TikTok from government devices:

> Last December, Gianforte banned TikTok on state government electronic devices. On Wednesday, he added that the ban would expand to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary."

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#99

Post by avn2109 »

One underappreciated aspect of this is ban is that anyone who wants Tiktok will just go download it in Wyoming or Idaho etc, as it seems to be merely a ban on downloading the app, and not a ban on Tiktok traffic itself. So the ban will have near zero actual impact in practice (even if it somehow makes it into effect).

Furthermore, it's unclear if the web app of Tiktok will be affected, or if it's only a ban on the mobile app.

Source: Am Montanan

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#100

Post by falcolas »

jameshart wrote: post #95
edgyquant wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries have the right to ban foreign adversaries. US companies are a different problem with different solutions.

Do states ? (edit - oops, see correction below) There's nothing in this law that would unban TikTok if its ownership were transferred to a US corporation.

As I understand it, nope. States can't negotiate treaties on the US' behalf. Commerce and sanctions would fall under that as I understand it.

States also can't regulate interstate trade, which I believe trying to penalize Apple and Google would constitute, since neither has a office in Montana.

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