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Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

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Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a garbage article if you're a fanatical Rand groupie. The post contributes to an important societal debate over whether or not the successful owe anything back to society, such as taxes. Obviously it's stimulated a lot of heat.

No, it's garbage because it makes a claim, then fails to back it up well. I read the NYmag article. Gladwell in that article does appear to be Rand's favorite villain. However, the blog post doesn't use those points. It doesn't contrast Gladwell's "cutting down the great man" to Rand's points. It brings up Rand, attacks her, brings up Gladwell, draws no conclusions whatsoever, and then says that the author can see a…

No, it's garbage because it makes a claim, then fails to back it up well. --

The guy simply asked a question. A question which then led to this long tirade by Rand groupies.

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#92
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But her characters are absolutely recognizable as humans. I've met people who talk like Rand heroes and people who talk like Rand villains. I've always envisioned Herb Kelleher of Southwest as a Randian hero. He refuses to compromise, gets mocked for a lot of things that turn out in retrospect to have been brilliant, and has a very flippant attitude about it all. It's like reading Asimov, who judges most of his chara…

Oh grow up. You sound like you're 14.

You know, you just proved their point about people who talk like Rand's villains. Is there anyone here who has read Rand's novels and can't imagine those words coming from James Taggart, Floyd Ferris, or Ellsworth Toohey? (Maybe not Ellsworth Toohey. He was more subtle.)

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#93
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You first!

Can I jump in and say "It's most likely a mix of the two?" Steve Jobs was not and is not a huge computer hacker. Not like Bill Gates. But still, he was able to conceive of the idea of a personal computer, before anybody else had the idea. How did he get 10,000 hours working into that? From his own words, he got the idea by dropping acid and deciding that people weren't using this new technology in a way that could ch…

Speaking of Apple, Steve Jobs actually contributed immensely to the company while pretenders like Guy Kawasaki arrived late, contributed nothing, and today try to take all the credit for the company's success.

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#94
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rand's vilification of people who disagree with her is irritating, but what's more troublesome is the victim mentality that goes along with it. Inevitably the protagonist (who is handsome, smart, determined, and surprisingly domineering in the bedroom) is held back by the mediocrity of the masses. If only circumstances were different, the books tell us over and over again, our hero could achieve his true potential. T…

Rand was rude towards people who disagreed with her for the sake of publicity just like this article. Disagreeing with good reason is what they should do instead.

How is it rude?

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#95
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I jump in and say "It's most likely a mix of the two?" Steve Jobs was not and is not a huge computer hacker. Not like Bill Gates. But still, he was able to conceive of the idea of a personal computer, before anybody else had the idea. How did he get 10,000 hours working into that? From his own words, he got the idea by dropping acid and deciding that people weren't using this new technology in a way that could ch…

Speaking of Apple, Steve Jobs actually contributed immensely to the company while pretenders like Guy Kawasaki arrived late, contributed nothing, and today try to take all the credit for the company's success.

Guy Kawasaki = poseur

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#97
Reading that blog reminded me of the Joe the Plumber story. At first he comes on like some big Randian success story with attacks on Obama's tax cuts for the bottom 95% of Americans.

Then it's gradually revealed that he is making far less than he claimed and would benefit from the cut.

Then we find out that he's not a licensed plumber.

And that he owes back taxes.

Finally, we discover that his family was on welfare twice and benefited from it.

Yet, Joe insists on pretending to be this great autonomous Randian hero.

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#98
post #89
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, no. Morally, yes. Samuel Beckett, possibly the best writer since Joyce, insists that if you perform his play, you do it precisely according to his directions: you use his setting, you follow his directions, you don't edit a line. It is his idea. In Beckett's case, thanks to copyrights it was both legally and morally his right to demand that. In Roark's case, he did not submit the plan under his own name. The…

I can see how Roark has every right to be pissed off, but I still can't see how that translates to the right to blow it up with dynamite. Followup question: What if Roark were a lousy architect? (But still thought he was brilliant?) Of course we know he wasn't because the book never gets tired of telling us how brilliant he is, but what if his original plans actually did kinda suck and the alterations were actually i…

Well, if he isn't then the argument is moot. But we have to trust Rand, and trust context: a famous, controversial architect takes him under his wing and loves his stuff, and the right sorts of people like his stuff. I've found that similar situations occur in real life, where there are particular movements of people with similar beliefs.

If the original plans sucked... well, I think that morally he still has the right. But the point of the novel is that if they sucked he wouldn't BE in that situation. He submits plans because he wants to help the middle class, which will get hurt vastly by this plan. And his plans are good enough that his absolute worst enemy agrees with how practical they are.

Dynamite is the only way to remove architecture, especially if the rights to building it are removed from you. A playwright can choose to remove his play from circulation. An artist can rip apart a painting. Roark can't do that so easily. And I think he has the right to remove his idea even if it's brilliant. In particular, he and Peter signed a contract that Keating would get it built exactly to standards, and Keating broke that. So there's some moral precedent: signs of his anticipating this happening. It's not a random act. Similarly, playwrights can choose to retroactively deny you performing rights if you go to far. It's happened before. There was controversy over Pinter performing a Beckett play a year or two ago, where Pinter changed one of the core parts of the play. It was resolved in Pinter's favor only because Pinter was Beckett's good friend, and understands his work thoroughly.

What's this about the Sydney Opera House? I don't know this story.

And, because I've seen your name pop up before, I feel like I ought to tell you that even though we disagree a lot, I've liked every debate we've gotten into. Thanks. :-)

Re: Malcolm Gladwell versus Ayn Rand: Who is right?

#99
post #96
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original article is vastly better than this blog post.

BS

The original one is a thorough discussion of Gladwell, his life, and his beliefs. This article was a poorly-written attempt to get hits through controversy alone. It doesn't show Rand off well, and it cites Gladwell out of context.

If you disagree, I'd love to discuss. But let's do it by actually making arguments back and forth. Let's put an effort into it.

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