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Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

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Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#91

Post by rcme »

throwaway646465 wrote: post #90
rcme wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishment, aka negative reinforcement, can be required in some cases. For instance, if your dog learns they can jump on the counter to steal food, then there isn't really a way to train that out of them with positive reinforcement. That doesn't mean yelling at a dog per se, but using a loud sound or might mousetrap on the counter can help discourage the behavior. "Timeout" is also a very common dog training strategy…

Ehhhh, much like children it really depends on the dog. I have a counter surfer at home, and we tried the negative reinforcement, time-outs, loud noises ect, and all it did was give her food aggression where she never had any before. Training leave it and removing opportunities for her to steal worked out way better long term. Now if she finds a chicken bone or something on a walk I can just take it from her when bef…

> Training leave it and removing opportunities for her to steal worked out way better long term.

Yea, that's what we did to, but I don't really consider that training the dog not to jump on the counter.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#92

Post by FrankyHollywood »

thanatropism wrote: post #82
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't see a lot of that nuance from many gentle parenting advocates I see friends taking parenting courses, and raising their kids 'by the rules'. It seems so mechanical, and, from the behavior I see it isn't working very well either, just and endless battle against 'the rules'. My kids are a bit older now, and looking back I see intuition is important in raising kids. You know your own boundaries, and can be…

> I found raising your voice in many cases just means you don't trust yourself and you don't trust that your kids respect you. My current working theory is that toddler temper tantrums are this. I mean from the opposite direction; the kid is not on solid footing yet and doesn't think the grownups take them seriously enough. For the longest while we were making the utmost effort to do the respectful parenting thing, b…

Oh yes this is hard... When the kid has a strong opinion, raises voice or just tries to lure you into a discussion or fight. That's the moment where the parent is easily tricked.

Staying calm in such a moment can do wonders and de-escalate, but it's hard, especially when I'm tired and need a moment of quiet :)

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#93

Post by BigCryo »

subjectsigma wrote: post #85
osobo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some manner of obligation to care for your pet (any pet) should exist. This has nothing to do with religion and is all about honoring the commitment you entered when you decided to take care of an animal.

I have no idea how laws got brought into this conversation but some people absolutely do worship their dogs, as someone who doesn’t really like animals and is highly allergic to pet dander, it’s frankly quite annoying and insane. I was bitten by a dog once and the owners immediately started trying to explain to me why it was actually my fault that I, standing there minding my own business, made the dog bite me! They…

You have no idea how laws got brought into the conversation? Well if there's a law requiring dogs to be physically examined every year and that would be what you call a law... Also people are bringing in stuff about registration and shots and so forth. Those are also called laws

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#95

Post by logifail »

Ensorceled wrote: post #87
logifail wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually, it's the definition of punishment: inflicting or imposing penalties as retribution for an offense. Children are not small adults, but they are surprisingly capable of understanding incentives. "If you behave well you can have ice cream. If you behave badly, you don't get ice cream. It's your choice." It's awful to teach children that behaviour doesn't matter. Actions do have consequences.

This is still punishment, even if you believe it's for their own good that "actions do have consequences". You can't just redefine it as "not punishment" because you want to use that method in child rearing.

> This is still punishment, even if you believe it's for their own good that "actions do have consequences"

"Actions have consequences" as a statement isn't really up for much debate, it's more of a observation on how the universe works. If we fall far enough, we hurt outselves.

Gravity isn't punishing us when we fall, even if it may feel like that at times - the scars on my right arm from a cycling accident last year are still visible.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#96

Post by logifail »

Ensorceled wrote: post #88
afterburner wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling a child they're not being punished as you punish them is gaslighting.

"It's for your own good so it's not punishment." It is amazing the mental hoops people can jump through.

> It is amazing the mental hoops people can jump through

Our eldest had his computer briefly confiscated not that long ago. He was, of course, cross with me when it happened.

The day afterwards he came to me and thanked me for taking it away(!)

Him: "I was spending way too much time playing games, I see that now" Me: "You're welcome to have it back" Him: "No, I'm not sure I want it in my room. It's too much of a distraction"

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#97

Post by pseudalopex »

logifail wrote: post #80
throwaway173738 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called negative punishment, and is pretty ineffective at eliciting the desired behavior. Positive reinforcement is the only way to spotlight the behavior you want by rewarding it. Punishment is more like learning the shape of a room by stubbing your toes on the walls. You’ll eventually get it but only after trying everything else you can think of.

> It’s called negative punishment It isn't: "[..] people confuse negative reinforcement with punishment, but these are two different concepts"[0] [0] https://www.webmd.com/parenting/what-to-know-about-negative-...

"Negative punishment is taking something pleasurable away to decrease the behavior. An example of negative punishment is taking away a toy if your child hits their sibling with it."

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#98

Post by pseudalopex »

ZunarJ5 wrote: post #33
bradleyjg wrote: post #20

Is there a direct connection between falling birth rates and treating animals as if they were beloved children? It seems like these animals evolutionary strategy is akin to that of the cuckoo bird.

The film Children of Men missed this part from the book, which is regrettable because it was such an interesting little world building piece.

The film showed pets everywhere and advertisements on transit for a pet fashion spring collection.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#99

Post by ZunarJ5 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #98
ZunarJ5 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The film Children of Men missed this part from the book, which is regrettable because it was such an interesting little world building piece.

The film showed pets everywhere and advertisements on transit for a pet fashion spring collection.

It glossed over what was in the book. It got weird.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#100

Post by pseudalopex »

ZunarJ5 wrote: post #99
pseudalopex wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The film showed pets everywhere and advertisements on transit for a pet fashion spring collection.

It glossed over what was in the book. It got weird.

Glossed over is too strong for me but subjective. Saying the movie missed the connection made it sound absent.
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