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Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

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Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#91
post #89
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be nice if they'd stop trying erase Aaron's work on Reddit but that's been underway for some time, and I'm not even really sure why. I can't fathom an end-goal where marginalizing Aaron's contributions is a benefit to them.

If I had to guess as to why his contributions are marginalized, it would be that his contributions were ~16 years ago to a version of the website that is vastly different in scope and scale to the one that exists today. Founders are important entities for companies, but just having the title of "founder" doesn't also magically mean whatever contributions and decisions you made have to be memorialized and defended for…

Hmm. Tesla would be a bad analogy but what you said would apply to them as well. To give the founder of Tesla zero credit, as Elon does, seems wrong.

He wasn't really like Facebook's other founders either. (Unlike Elon and Tesla, Zuckerberg is unquestionably a founder of Facebook.) Zuckerberg gave them too little credit, but at least one of them demanded too much credit IMO. That doesn't make it right for Zuckerberg to give them too little credit.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit recently announced changes to their APIs pricing and features that will probably lead to the abandonment of most third-party Reddit clients. Users of those clients are upset. https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/12ram0f/had_a_fe...

but lets say they're upset enough to leave - where will they go en masse that replaces reddit?

[flagged]

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#93

Reddit is such a cesspool of low-quality commentary and rage-baiting. The front page/popular category is particularly egregious.

Front page is horrible, and I always skip it by bookmarking a subreddit that I'm already subscribed to. Front page feels like clickbait and "get angry for engagement metrics"

No idea if it still works, but it was possible to select content from only certain subreddits

    https://reddit.com/r/subreddit1+subreddit2+subreddit3

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#94

This is a nice time to remind everyone that Aaron Swartz died while fighting for a freer internet and a freer world. He is, by Paul Graham, considered a founder of reddit but is rarely mentioned in these stories. Instead of trying to go for broke and grind till he could cash out, Aaron put his skin in the game for what the internet should become. Which gets more relevant everyday that the internet megacorps consolida…

I’ve been banned from multiple subreddits for commenting “I wish Aaron Swartz were still alive”. Just that. Nothing else. Instant ban with no recourse. That’s how toxic reddit moderators are.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#95
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess as to why his contributions are marginalized, it would be that his contributions were ~16 years ago to a version of the website that is vastly different in scope and scale to the one that exists today. Founders are important entities for companies, but just having the title of "founder" doesn't also magically mean whatever contributions and decisions you made have to be memorialized and defended for…

Hmm. Tesla would be a bad analogy but what you said would apply to them as well. To give the founder of Tesla zero credit, as Elon does, seems wrong. He wasn't really like Facebook's other founders either. (Unlike Elon and Tesla, Zuckerberg is unquestionably a founder of Facebook.) Zuckerberg gave them too little credit, but at least one of them demanded too much credit IMO. That doesn't make it right for Zuckerberg…

There is a very big difference between giving no credit and giving a fair amount of credit, which might be small. If you listened to the podcast they talked about Aaron in a non-disparaging way, and a way that I'm sure is accurate to their beliefs about it.

But my point is that _even if_ Aaron was super, super important to the company 16 years ago (which I can't speak to), Reddit was a tiny little fledgling of what it is now. From what little I know about Reddit's history, I know that Aaron stopped working on Reddit very soon after he started and has had no contribution to the company since then.

I also do think it's interesting that the people that have worked at Reddit for years/decades all seem to have a similar opinion of the situation, and the people who haven't worked at Reddit at all are the ones that feel so strongly that Aaron is being wronged somehow.

Maybe Aaron himself was more proud of all the other things he accomplished! Saying he was an important but small part of Reddit's story is still something!

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#96
post #72

This is a nice time to remind everyone that Aaron Swartz died while fighting for a freer internet and a freer world. He is, by Paul Graham, considered a founder of reddit but is rarely mentioned in these stories. Instead of trying to go for broke and grind till he could cash out, Aaron put his skin in the game for what the internet should become. Which gets more relevant everyday that the internet megacorps consolida…

Well, that's what sort of happened. He broke in to an MIT networking closet (he was never a student there, and MIT is not a public university) and connected his equipment to the network. https://www.wired.com/2013/12/swartz-video/ There are a lot of much more legal ways to make the Internet freer. He was a smart guy and knew what he was doing was highly illegal. It goes without saying that it's very tragic that he de…

I think your comment manages to be both uncharitable and misleading. Until very recently the MIT campus was extremely open and accessible to everyone. A great many non-mit students have many experiences going places far more dubious, including steam tunnels and machine rooms deep under the buildings. Can you tell me how many of them have been _federally prosecuted_? Can you name even one? If you could then perhaps we can have a good faith discussion about "highly illegal" and "far beyond petty crime".

Even after the new lockdowns ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33352567 ) the building in question is one of the ones still open to the general public. Tossing your equipment into an equipment closet, to access the exact same network you can access elsewhere but with reduced risk of some vagrant walking off with it is the same thing most people would do if they needed to leave some equipment connected and didn't have access to a more secure location.

There is just no way to deny that what Aaron was being prosecuted for was 'downloading too many scientific papers while having an anti-monopolist mindset'. Any mere urban explorer who arguably trespassed into a school facility would at most be facing a local trespassing charge, and in a case like this where the facility was expressly open to the general public and their unauthorized access was to an unlocked wiring closet, those charges likely wouldn't have stuck (or wouldn't have resulted in a very consequential sentence). Usually trespassers, when caught, are just kicked out and not charged at all. Exactly the sort of "petty crime" not-"highly-illegal" stuff you argue it wasn't.

Is it unfortunate that the feds had an option to cloak their almost nakedly political prosecution behind a complaint of dubious deeds? Wouldn't it have been better (for him) if he'd asked one of his many friends that had offices at MIT if he could leave a computer in their office? Sure. But we don't get to pick the cases that are used to defend our rights, the prosecutors get to pick... and they pick ones they think they have the best odds of winning, or in other words the cases with the best chance of letting them erode our rights, the best chance of having a chilling effect, the best chance of not resulting in a loss for the state that instead strengthens the freedoms they're trying to undermine.

So it's almost inevitable that our privacy is defended through the lens of accused pedophiles our our freedom of speech through obvious racists. The case being unfortunate is a _default_. But by comparison with those, prosecuting Aaron Swartz over this was like federally prosecuting hippy anti-war protesters putting up posters for _littering_. Wouldn't it have been better if did nothing that could be accused of being littering? Yes but the prosecutor would simply have waited for a different case where someone did, and it would just be that case being used to chill the public's freedoms. We could be a lot worse off than fighting for access to (primarily publicly funded!) knowledge through an accused trespasser. The choice of case would matter personally to the accused, but not to us-- if anything it's not hard to imagine a case much more muddled than one against Aaron that they could have used, say someone with a arguable commercial angle or a connection to a hostile state interest. Whatever case is being used as a proxy to attack the rights of all of the rest of us will always have some extra angle making it more complicated.

Sadly Aaron didn't get the support he needed from the public (including myself), he wasn't in the right place to see it through, and the intensity of federal prosecution is just out of odds with producing justice in the face of potentially vulnerable targets. It did end the political aspirations of the prosecutor, for whatever its worth.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#97
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Tesla would be a bad analogy but what you said would apply to them as well. To give the founder of Tesla zero credit, as Elon does, seems wrong. He wasn't really like Facebook's other founders either. (Unlike Elon and Tesla, Zuckerberg is unquestionably a founder of Facebook.) Zuckerberg gave them too little credit, but at least one of them demanded too much credit IMO. That doesn't make it right for Zuckerberg…

There is a very big difference between giving no credit and giving a fair amount of credit, which might be small. If you listened to the podcast they talked about Aaron in a non-disparaging way, and a way that I'm sure is accurate to their beliefs about it. But my point is that _even if_ Aaron was super, super important to the company 16 years ago (which I can't speak to), Reddit was a tiny little fledgling of what i…

If people have to listen to a podcast to hear them present a balanced view, clearly they've failed to do so publicly.

I'll pass on listening to the podcast, there are thousands of others I'd rather listen to. Thanks anyways.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got multiple migration waves from digg, added subreddits, then network effects started. Early Reddit was pretty boring unless you were interested in programming or technology. The first big bump in users from digg was during the HD-DVD key fracas. The ham-handed response by digg to even talking about the key leak pissed off a lot of users. They were already simmering due to astroturfing/Payola by "power users" (…

Digg changed the way comments were threaded meaning there could be no cogent discussion in threads. I am confident that was the mortal wound to Digg.

I don't think you're wrong. Digg did not understand the core features that users valued. They assumed users would stick around through every monetization abuse they threw at them. Users put up with the "power user" bullshit (paid influencers and astroturfing) because the comments tied to those submissions could be worthwhile.

I think digg's fundamental problem was they viewed their user base like a passive audience. It turned out their users were in fact their main attraction. When they ruined the experience for users they left and digg was left with zero value.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#99
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's owned by a Chinese company from what I understand. I don't think they have a particular bone with Aaron, but generally just believe in deleting inconvenient controversies.

Tencent owns 5% of reddit.

5% based on fictional evaluation, but $150 of the last $300 mil raised. Certainly enough to influence marketing and positioning.

Re: Listen to Steve Huffman tell the story of how Reddit got started

#100
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very big difference between giving no credit and giving a fair amount of credit, which might be small. If you listened to the podcast they talked about Aaron in a non-disparaging way, and a way that I'm sure is accurate to their beliefs about it. But my point is that _even if_ Aaron was super, super important to the company 16 years ago (which I can't speak to), Reddit was a tiny little fledgling of what i…

If people have to listen to a podcast to hear them present a balanced view, clearly they've failed to do so publicly. I'll pass on listening to the podcast, there are thousands of others I'd rather listen to. Thanks anyways.

Well I guess we'll both agree to disagree about the nuances of the early years of Reddit, something neither of us know anything about. Oh well.
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