The Age of the Crisis of Work • Hacker News Board

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#91

Post by to11mtm » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

I think an interesting unspoken problem is the 'Disneyfication' of many modern businesses.

That's anything from overblown 'cult cultures' to 'we are a family!'

In environments, many times a company winds up not properly removing bad/misplaced[0] actors from power roles until a -lot- of damage has been done.

As we are now in some stage of the 'Information age', as some people realize that in fact their families -were- fucked up, it is easier to realize that their company 'family' is in fact, also fucked up. [2]

At that point, folks do the best they can; busting ass on a project/improvement/etc and receiving no recognition (or worse, criticism) is in some ways similar to a family member who wants to borrow your spare car to save money on gas, then returns the car to you 2 months later overdue for an oil change and an empty tank when it was given full. You don't loan a car to that family member again.

[0] - The most frequent example of 'misplaced' is when someone gets promoted to a leadership role when unprepared from either an org or 'Emotional Intelligence'[1] level.

[1] - FWIW I find the term 'Emotional Intelligence' misleading; Sometimes people who seem to lack emotional intelligence in interactions actually have a great deal of it, and are instead weaponizing that against others. Or, someone may have amazing empathy for others but not do well with responding to very specific emotional stimuli.

[2] - Another poster alluded to it, but there is definitely at least an anecdotal correlation between past trauma and tolerance of emotional abuse at the office.

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#92

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

gdulli wrote: post #87

denkmoon wrote: post #38

Why the fuck would I ever put in more effort than absolutely necessary when I will not be rewarded proportionately for the increased effort? It probably won't even be noticed. and even if I were, where does that get me? Still sucking eggs in a housing market that is now more than ever before for business rather than for fulfilling a human need, still suffering through the bureaucratic uncaring nightmare that is the s…

> Why the fuck would I ever put in more effort than absolutely necessary when I will not be rewarded proportionately for the increased effort? Because it's unpredictable how and when you'll be rewarded, so why not put yourself in a position to capitalize when you can?

Putting in effort, especially when it's perceived that the effort goes unrewarded, is stressful. If it's unpredictable how and when I'll be rewarded and it's predictable that I'll be stressed from effort, the calculus is to not be effortful for my own mental health.

One might put effort into learning how to do their job better but I would argue that it's folly to put effort into doing everything one's employer tells them to. I will challenge myself to do a job "right" but if it's a lot of effort (read: anything akin to "staying late") then I'm not afraid to say "it will be done eventually" or "here are the steps we'll need to take".

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#93

Post by tmaly » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #68

frje1400 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because even if don't get more money you get to do more fun work with more autonomy if you are good at what you do.

The more fun work in my life are raising my kids and creating art.

100%

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#94

Post by mydogcanpurr » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #74

mydogcanpurr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that only works if you believe you'll benefit from moving the stock up and are in a position in which you actually can. Both seem doubtful to me for many workers. This is also why commission is a great motivator for sales people; they directly benefit from putting in the extra mile, so of course they want to work hard. Meanwhile a tech worker centering a div has no way of connecting their work with the comp…

The example is a bad one because if one person does something attributable to just them that causes an established company’s market cap to rise by 10%, you will have earned quite a bit of recognition which should translate to future income security and additional income.

Hence bonuses and promotions...

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#95

Post by gdulli » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #92

gdulli wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the fuck would I ever put in more effort than absolutely necessary when I will not be rewarded proportionately for the increased effort? Because it's unpredictable how and when you'll be rewarded, so why not put yourself in a position to capitalize when you can?

Putting in effort, especially when it's perceived that the effort goes unrewarded, is stressful. If it's unpredictable how and when I'll be rewarded and it's predictable that I'll be stressed from effort, the calculus is to not be effortful for my own mental health. One might put effort into learning how to do their job better but I would argue that it's folly to put effort into doing everything one's employer tells…

But you have control over your perception. If you tell yourself only futility is possible, yes you'll experience futility.

Some amount of stress is something we need to be able to deal with, not avoid altogether. It's not cyanide. There are workplaces toxic enough to be worth leaving, but not giving immediate rewards for doing more than the bare minimum isn't toxicity.

At a certain point, if you need a salary and benefits, doesn't it become stressful if you don't distinguish yourself over others such that you're less likely to be one of the first who'd be laid off if/when it came to that?

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#96

Post by yellowapple » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

Gud wrote: post #80

bluefirebrand wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes my position more solid This is increasingly less true though. People are seeing that they can produce high value for years and never get rewarded, and eventually get laid off when cuts need to happen. At that point, why try?

If they are providing high value but not reaping high rewards, introspection is warranted.

Then the near-entirety of the American (and global, while we're at it) workforce has quite a bit of introspection to do.

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#97

Post by 7speter » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

tester457 wrote: post #90

kyleyeats wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy: You're pre-selected. You've been trained for decades in one way or another to unquestioningly chase the mission . You went through five interviews and putting mission-over-self was the #1 selection criterion in each. You call it imposter syndrome or cPTSD or ADHD but the truth is you've just had people screaming expectations in your ear your whole life. It's not a question of you vs. your employer but of y…

So what does it mean to pick you in this situation?

Unemployed

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#98

Post by 7speter » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

steve1977 wrote: post #64

over_bridge wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty cynical take but there are some truly old businesses in the world where generations of families have worked and enjoyed a good life. Work can uplift people and be a centre of the community. Or it can be like most are today where you work away for some faceless shareholders who fire you when they need a stock price boost.

> enjoyed a good life Did they? As good as the capitalists company owners life? Or have they just been told that „this is the good life“? I think the problem today is that a lot of work is actually not needed anymore. It’s just there to make a small elite richer and keep people under control.

Sometimes being able to buy a house and raise a family is a good enough life.

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#99

Post by steve1977 » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:45 PM UTC

7speter wrote: post #98

steve1977 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> enjoyed a good life Did they? As good as the capitalists company owners life? Or have they just been told that „this is the good life“? I think the problem today is that a lot of work is actually not needed anymore. It’s just there to make a small elite richer and keep people under control.

Sometimes being able to buy a house and raise a family is a good enough life.

The question is, what would they have been able to buy without the exploitation?

Re: The Age of the Crisis of Work

#100

Post by eli_gottlieb » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:54 PM UTC

Thorrez wrote: post #49

denkmoon wrote: post #38

Why the fuck would I ever put in more effort than absolutely necessary when I will not be rewarded proportionately for the increased effort? It probably won't even be noticed. and even if I were, where does that get me? Still sucking eggs in a housing market that is now more than ever before for business rather than for fulfilling a human need, still suffering through the bureaucratic uncaring nightmare that is the s…

I enjoy my job. I enjoy getting stuff done.

I enjoy my job too, but it took easily five or six years after finishing school before I got a job I actually enjoyed and felt valued in for the first time. Ultimately, work is what pays the bills.