Live data from Hacker News

With Sobering Science, Doctor Debunks 12-Step Recovery (2014)

npr.org

91–92 of 92 posts

Re: With Sobering Science, Doctor Debunks 12-Step Recovery (2014)

#91
post #60
post #7

As someone who's been on his own journey with alcohol and hung out in a few sobriety forums (/r/stopdrinking is brilliant), I've seen a very clear difference between the 12-steppers and other people who are quit/quitting/moderating. I found the framing of the AA folks to be a lot more extreme. Problematic alcohol use is frequently described as an incurable, progressive disease. There's also this heavy focus on guilt…

I think AA "accidentally" provides people with strong community support - a basic need, the lack of which often leads people to... well, drink. AA fulfills that need, and maybe the 12 steps themselves don't work, but the community does. That's why so many people swear by it and have success with it. So yes, it'll be a little culty, because those are the principles of this particular community, but I think it's far mo…

Unlike malicious cults, AA doesn't seem to be dedicated to exploiting its members for the benefit of cult leaders.

I think you are on to something, which is that providing connection can help people to overcome addiction. (Or perhaps the reverse - that addiction can help people cope with a lack of connection.)

If AA is the only source of connection, then I imagine losing it might very well result in relapse simply from losing the connection itself (not to mention the encouragement to remain sober.)

Re: With Sobering Science, Doctor Debunks 12-Step Recovery (2014)

#92

I don't know much about AA, but whatever the case may be, I wonder if measuring effectiveness based on success rate numbers is all that meaningful. That is, does it makes sense to view it in medical terms? While it seems to be the case that some are more prone to alcoholism than others based on genetic factors, whether one actually becomes an alcoholic is not a matter of deterministic factors like a disease might be.…

> Why assume alcoholics and alcoholism are any different than most people and most habits

I think it'd be a mistake to think there's no difference between physiological addiction and "most bad habits" since most bad habit's don't have a risk of killing you when you simply stop doing them (https://www.psychreg.org/cold-turkey-alcohol-dangerous/). I think looking at addiction in medical terms is far more appropriate than looking at it as a moral failing or as a lack of desire to change or an unwillingness to "endure suffering" (many addicts I've known were certainly no stranger to suffering and sacrifice).

Treating addictions like a medical problem makes it harder for non-addicts to look down on people afflicted with them so a lot of people will resist the idea and continue to think that it's nothing more than a personal shortcoming and that dealing with the problem should be no harder than avoiding any other undesirable behavior. I really don't think telling people that if only they were more orderly and had a stronger character that they wouldn't have an addiction is true or helpful.

Post reply on HN