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Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

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Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#91
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was supported by progressives and feminists in the early 1900s and actually resulted in fewer deaths from alcohol and lower domestic violence. The anti-prohibition rhetoric in modern times was essentially manufactured by corporate interests to imply it doesn't work https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibit... https://time.com/5501680/prohibition-history-feminism-suffra...

Uh, that’s not exactly a complete picture. Prohibition also allowed the mafia to gain a foothold in the US.

Has nothing to do with the fact that prohibition reduced drinking and domestic violence sharply.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#92
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we shouldn't. There is a big difference between a parent safely bringing up a child and a state interfering with what an adult person does to themselves. Otherwise you open a can of greater good worms. If you have money, opioids are easily available via dealers throughout the world and there is no epidemic of addicts. Yes there are individual cases, but most of these would be destroying their lives in some other a…

This is an area where we must acknowledge that one's "values" frame of reference is inextricably linked to how you decide this question. Yes, we definitely are sacrificing some of everyone's bodily autonomy because we think it's less bad than the consequences of putting no limits on it. Caffeine, Alcohol, Cigarettes, Cannabis, Cocaine, Meth, Heroin, Fentanyl, biological weapons and on some parallel track: BB gun, .22…

I mean if you offered me the full auto gun or a tank I’d not be so impolite as to refuse

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#93

Drugs or herbal medicine? Is there even a difference when talking about early civilizations? We know that herbal medicine was a staple of many early civilizations. Even animals use herbs as medicine. It seems to me that we have known this information for ages.

What’s the difference? Herbs and drugs are different labels for the same thing.

Dosage, and possibly method of consumption, which has an effect or people would never have invented freebasing or snorting. Herbs also have many other components, which may have pharmacological effect, while drugs do not have those components.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always wonder why nobody has made an argument that drug laws are unconstitutional since the 9th amendment states clearly that rights don't need to be enumerated, Probably because most people want regulations and enforcement around pharmaceuticals. If we decide that the government has no power to pass laws surrounding drugs we'd be hurting ourselves.

This assumes that Federal government regulation is the only kind and the only way to restrain people from selling dangerous products. Products could receive private endorsements in a way similar to a UL listing for electronics. States would still be able to regulate products. There would be differences in their implementation and we could learn from the outcomes of those differences. Finally, we could offer no direct…

> Products could receive private endorsements in a way similar to a UL

UL is partially funded by taxpayer money in the form of grants, is itself regulated by the US government (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-XVI...) and for decades it was even tax-exempt! That's not a great example of some random but trustworthy body selflessly protecting the masses without the involvement or oversight of government.

> Finally, we could offer no direct regulation, but states could place strong penalties for any harms caused by dangerous products

And if you get seriously sickened by a product you then must have the resources to prove in court against a massive corporation that it was a specific drug, from one specific company that made you sick and that there's no chance it was any of the other totally unregulated and untested drugs from random sources that you've taken over the course of your lifetime that caused the problem. You'd also have to somehow trace a drug back to a manufacturer who could pop-up and vanish at a moments notice since nobody is keeping track of anything. Not ideal...

> to some these ideas seem like madness, but it's hard to argue that our existing system doesn't harbor its own brand of lunacy. Putting everything in the hands of an central government is a path we've chosen, but it's not the only path.

We've fought tooth and nail for what few protections we have today while pharmaceutical companies have worked tirelessly to exploit and undermine that same system of regulations. With so much at stake, it makes sense that people would hesitate to throw away what progress we have made to try some new unproven thing, but you're right that our current system has its flaws so changes need to happen. What's important is that the end result of those changes makes us all safer and makes it harder for companies to get away with abuses.

As far as leaving everything up to individual states, I know that if I were a drug manufacturer it would be a hell of a lot less of a burden if I only had one set of rules to follow, only had to allow one group of inspectors into my facilities, only had one set of licensees I had to acquire and maintain, only had one place I had to report side effects and submit approvals to etc. Putting everything in the hands of one centralized agency that covers the entire nation is a huge win for drug companies and consumers who don't need to worry that the drug they pick up on one state isn't held to the same standards as a drug they pick up in another. Sometimes centralization is simply the most efficient way to handle something and it'd take a lot to demonstrate that decentralization would be an improvement for pretty much anybody.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can thank FDR for stacking the supreme court and outright threatening to increase the number of justices to intimidate other justices for that ruling. Supreme Court went with every overreach of power that FDR wanted for the federal government, including affirming the right to intern Japanese-Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bil...

>outright threatening to increase the number of justices to intimidate other justices for that ruling Good thing we’ve learned so much since then. You would never have anyone so short sighted as to jump up and down for that in these more civilized times.

If seriously does need to be done though. It's morbid having a single elderly person's health dictate which way a country goes.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#96

I always wonder why nobody has made an argument that drug laws are unconstitutional since the 9th amendment states clearly that rights don't need to be enumerated, and there's abundant evidence of people making their own drug decisions prior to the existence of the USA.

Because the 9th and 10th Amendments are effectively non-existent in jurisprudence for the last century or two.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#97
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fascinating thought is that we might have been doing this since _before_ homo sapiens emerged as a species. We've got plenty of evidence that we had cultural propagation of knowledge among our early ancestors for over three millions of years via the Oldowan and Acheulean stone industries. Since hunter gatherers naturally passed along knowledge of the safety of edible plants, at what point did they figure out how to…

Since hunter gatherers naturally passed along knowledge of the safety of edible plants People had no aspirin, no painkillers, multiple parasites, diseases, rotting teeth, etc. While getting high may have been part if it, for some, it may have been relief.

But they did. Some of the oldest written records we have describe the pain relieving effects of willow bark. But your point stands that for thousands of years intoxicants were just another type of medicine.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#98
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This thing is inherently too risky/dangerous to use ... like firing a gun off into the air"

This is dead wrong, and an extremely ignorant take. Firing a gun into the air is ill-advised and illegal because such bullets have a tendency to randomly impact and maim or murder bystanders within the radius of a couple of miles. https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/15/firi... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/03/can-falling-bull...

Yeah, firing a gun into the dirt is much safer. If you have a giggle switch make sure you can handle the recoil, otherwise you might shoot yourself or someone else in the foot.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#99
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an area where we must acknowledge that one's "values" frame of reference is inextricably linked to how you decide this question. Yes, we definitely are sacrificing some of everyone's bodily autonomy because we think it's less bad than the consequences of putting no limits on it. Caffeine, Alcohol, Cigarettes, Cannabis, Cocaine, Meth, Heroin, Fentanyl, biological weapons and on some parallel track: BB gun, .22…

Are you genuinely suggesting that cannabis is more harmful than alcohol Not to mention, do people use biological weapons recreationally? That's news to me

Nah, I started out putting things in order from most legally allowed to most harshly punished/seen although it looks like I did organize the opioids more via badness.

I definitely think cannabis is less harmful than alcohol.

Re: Direct evidence of the use of multiple drugs in Bronze Age from human hair test

#100
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is amazing how many people have trouble understanding that a dispute of the form “is this action the government is taking lawful, given the existence of Congressional action X and Constitutional provision Y” is case arising under the Constitution and Laws of the United States.

Yes, it’s a bit surprising. The whole point of a constitution is to provide a groundwork and a set of meta-rules governing how the ordinary rules of society may be made and modified, and how disputes about those sorts of thing should be resolved. The judiciary is precisely the mechanism for entertaining and deciding these disputes. The odd thing, really, is that it took a decade and a half, until 1803, for the Suprem…

Not all that odd. The federal government legislated much less then, it was a drastically simpler nation. And the 14th amendment had not been adopted incorporating most of the first 10 amendments to cover state actions.
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