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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

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Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#91

Post by coffeebeqn »

GalenErso wrote: post #16
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

I don't buy the idea that it was a mistake for NATO to allow former Soviet bloc countries to join, because it would supposedly encroach on Russia's sphere of influence or increase tensions with Russia. Spheres of influence are gained through economic muscle and cultural power now, not force of arms.

It is a voluntary alliance. Countries apply to join. They’re not coerced.

Small countries will and sovereignty also matters.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#92

Post by khuey »

anonymousab wrote: post #39
khuey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear weapons can't take and hold territory.

Turning it into a barren wasteland makes it easier to take or hold with disposable conscripts.

It really doesn't. The front in eastern Ukraine has been shelled into oblivion at this point and it hasn't made it easy for Russia to advance.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#93

Post by pas »

BurningFrog wrote: post #72
morkalork wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading about what the Soviet Union did in countries like Estonia and Ukraine is pretty harrowing stuff. Wanting to join NATO for protection after is completely understandable and denying them because it would upset their former (and present) abuser is a shameful thought.

Very true. Though it's good to remember the Soviet Union did even worse things to Russia.

I have trouble parsing that. However, the important thing would be to accept the facts, try to process them, and move forward. Of course that's not so easy. (It's not like the US did it. Or that Germany did it super well.)

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#94

Post by ElectricalUnion »

edgyquant wrote: post #85
anonymousab wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning it into a barren wasteland makes it easier to take or hold with disposable conscripts.

That will be the end of Russia entirely.

> That will be the end of Earth entirely.

FTFY

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#95

Post by selectodude »

torbica wrote: post #70
khochesh_kushat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in NATO wants to invade Russia and have a nuclear war. 20% of homes there don't even have indoor plumbing. Nobody wants anything from Russia except to not be attacked by them.

Nobody in my country wanted to be bombed by NATO and it still happened.

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#96

Post by dralley »

kreeben wrote: post #28
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

>> just Hah, yeah, that's not a big deal at all, neutralizing Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors, through threats of aggression. Like, who's scared of Russia these days? They're just empty threats. I'd like totally bet my life on it, just empty threats. EDIT: /s

Just because Russia is not an existential threat to the vast majority of NATO countries except perhaps the Baltics, doesn't mean there's not a recognition of the amount of damage they could inflict in the process of a "failed" invasion.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#97

Post by martythemaniak »

torbica wrote: post #70
khochesh_kushat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in NATO wants to invade Russia and have a nuclear war. 20% of homes there don't even have indoor plumbing. Nobody wants anything from Russia except to not be attacked by them.

Nobody in my country wanted to be bombed by NATO and it still happened.

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#98

Post by ta1243 »

torbica wrote: post #70
khochesh_kushat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in NATO wants to invade Russia and have a nuclear war. 20% of homes there don't even have indoor plumbing. Nobody wants anything from Russia except to not be attacked by them.

Nobody in my country wanted to be bombed by NATO and it still happened.

You talking about NATO specifically or America?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#99

Post by go13 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #72
morkalork wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading about what the Soviet Union did in countries like Estonia and Ukraine is pretty harrowing stuff. Wanting to join NATO for protection after is completely understandable and denying them because it would upset their former (and present) abuser is a shameful thought.

Very true. Though it's good to remember the Soviet Union did even worse things to Russia.

russia and soviet union are not too far apart actually. Let's not make victim of poor russians, while so many of them fight now and fought in the past to kill independent nations.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#100

Post by lolinder »

torbica wrote: post #70
khochesh_kushat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in NATO wants to invade Russia and have a nuclear war. 20% of homes there don't even have indoor plumbing. Nobody wants anything from Russia except to not be attacked by them.

Nobody in my country wanted to be bombed by NATO and it still happened.

I'm assuming you're talking about Yugoslavia?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

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