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Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

cen.acs.org

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Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#91

Post by andreygrehov »

tectonic wrote: post #7

Just. Stop. Putting. Teflon. On. Everything. Figuring out what does and does not have PFAS on it to protect my family is exhausting and infuriating. I’ve emailed with manufacturers, sent stuff to labs; basically, no one seems to know how much materials like this are used on every day products.

Mailing manufacturers is a drop in the ocean. The only way to shut it all down is to implement a comprehensive ban on PFAS in all food-related products. In order to achieve this, several regulatory and legislative actions would likely need to take place.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#92

Post by adrianmonk »

janosdebugs wrote: post #26

So, when you order from the average restaurant, you get a meal made of pre-portioned frozen ingredients containing sometimes questionable substances and you also get poisoned by the packaging. And the restaurant industry is complaining. Makes sense. (If you are a German-speaker, ZDFbesseresser is a worthwhile channel to watch. We basically all but stopped going to or ordering from restaurants.)

> And the restaurant industry is complaining.

Huh? This article is about academics doing research.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#93

Post by jiggywiggy »

ticviking wrote: post #84
jiggywiggy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just teflon. It's most likely also going to be it's successors. Its going to deemed safe for a while till it's not. Most properties desired while at the same time being cheap and durable will leak and will not play nice and with our cells or hormone system. Especially because the goal of most of these chemical is to be cheaper the cheap. (Otherwise we would just use glass)

Simple clay and glass would work better but cost more and require more careful handling. Both of those prevent cost optimizers from considering them

Yeah and most ceramic solutions you have to be careful with the paint they use. There have been cases of issues in slow cookers.

Glass is safest and extremely long lasting but indeed more difficult to work with.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#94

Post by anonuser123456 »

amluto wrote: post #57

If you believe the leading manufacturer in the US, they phased out PFAS in compostable bowls in 2021: https://www.worldcentric.com/leafplus/ I assume the new coating is some kind of polymerized plant material.

>I assume the new coating is some kind of polymerized plant material.

That’s a bold assumption.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#95

Post by carlmr »

542458 wrote: post #78
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we cam have a country-wide system of reusable packaging that you can get from any takeaway, abd can return to any takeawatly for a refund

I somewhat agree, but it's probably more complex than that - We have a country-wide system of reusable aluminum and glass containers that can be returned for refund and a significant portion of the population can't be bothered and just chucks them in the trash (or worse, the gutter). Lots of people don't respond to incentives well.

The incentives aren't strong enough then.

In Germany it's 25 cents for plastic and aluminum. 8cents for glass.

A lot of people just throw the glass away in public bins, because a) glass is heavy and b) 8 cents is too little incentive.

The 25 cent cans most people return. If it was 1€ a glass bottle you bet your ass people would return them.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#96

Post by dwater »

beebeepka wrote: post #73
janosdebugs wrote: post #26

So, when you order from the average restaurant, you get a meal made of pre-portioned frozen ingredients containing sometimes questionable substances and you also get poisoned by the packaging. And the restaurant industry is complaining. Makes sense. (If you are a German-speaker, ZDFbesseresser is a worthwhile channel to watch. We basically all but stopped going to or ordering from restaurants.)

We're not big on ordering food, or take out in general, but I've been thinking about just providing our own metal/glass containers instead of wasting aluminium and paper. My wife is against it. I think she finds this idea embarrassing but I don't care.

Plastic use in commercial kitchens is pretty high too. Taking boiling hot food and putting plastic wrap over it or putting it in a plastic container is pretty common. With sous vide the food is cooked inside a brand new plastic bag. The only way to avoid it is to be fanatical.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#97

Post by akiselev »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #18
tectonic wrote: post #7

Just. Stop. Putting. Teflon. On. Everything. Figuring out what does and does not have PFAS on it to protect my family is exhausting and infuriating. I’ve emailed with manufacturers, sent stuff to labs; basically, no one seems to know how much materials like this are used on every day products.

It's not just teflon. It's most likely also going to be it's successors. Its going to deemed safe for a while till it's not. Most properties desired while at the same time being cheap and durable will leak and will not play nice and with our cells or hormone system. Especially because the goal of most of these chemical is to be cheaper the cheap. (Otherwise we would just use glass)

Honestly I have no idea why people think we're going to find a safe and equally effective alternative. Most of the PFAS in use are powerful surfactants that change the surface tension of water, break up the lipids in cell membranes, and otherwise interfere with almost all the chemical processes that make life life. Everything from cell walls to capillary action are directly effected by these molecules. The same features that cause them to bioaccumulate so well give them their incredible industrial properties.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#98

Post by liveoneggs »

dangwhy wrote: post #58
tectonic wrote: post #7

Just. Stop. Putting. Teflon. On. Everything. Figuring out what does and does not have PFAS on it to protect my family is exhausting and infuriating. I’ve emailed with manufacturers, sent stuff to labs; basically, no one seems to know how much materials like this are used on every day products.

can someone recommend a pan to make eggs in the morning without sticking or having to put tons of grease.

I recently switched to this guy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K9FKC4 and, after seasoning, I can still cook my eggs in a normal-amount of butter. It's not quite as easy as non-stick but getting better with use.

Last year I tried switching to stainless but it was just too much trouble for my daily egg cooking. I just never figured it out.

I use cast iron for many/most dinners but I wanted the sloped sides and reduced weight for flipping eggs.

I still use the non-stick occasionally for things like crepes but moving from daily use to weekly or less seems like a win.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#99

Post by jiggywiggy »

agtech_andy wrote: post #30

The reality is that US regulatory agencies have been extremely permissive for many years. Many other nations piggy back on their findings. We need a massive increase in enforcement. What we will see with cheaper and more available testing is that PFAS are everywhere. It is hard to find waterways or soils, even in remote areas, that are not contaminated. It is really tragic and the extent of the pollution can make you…

It will cause things to move much slower. But I'm thinking we are at the point where we need to move to burden of proof to being safe instead of it being unsafe.

Re: Compostable fast-food packaging can emit volatile PFAS

#100

Post by jointpdf »

dangwhy wrote: post #58
tectonic wrote: post #7

Just. Stop. Putting. Teflon. On. Everything. Figuring out what does and does not have PFAS on it to protect my family is exhausting and infuriating. I’ve emailed with manufacturers, sent stuff to labs; basically, no one seems to know how much materials like this are used on every day products.

can someone recommend a pan to make eggs in the morning without sticking or having to put tons of grease.

Carbon steel is much better than cast iron! It takes some time to build up a nonstick coating (seasoning), but once you do fried eggs will glide around like they’re on ice.

I have a Mauviel that I love, but the Matfer Bourgeat is better for eggs because it doesn’t have the steel rivets on the inside of the pan. Both are made in France and cost like $70.

This is a solid explainer on carbon steel pans: https://youtu.be/-suTmUX4Vbk

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