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New insights into why aspirin works so well

eurekalert.org

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Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#91

Post by szundi »

School-Cotton wrote: post #61
jeffparsons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking to me how we still refer to paracetamol and ibuprofen in the same breath when their relative risks are so different.

Are they? Maybe acetaminophen (i.e. paracetamol) is many times more dangerous than ibuprofen, but still, in absolute terms it must be low if used according to guidelines. I mean, most people don’t know anyone who has died or been injured from acetaminophen, so from most normal people’s everyday perspective it simply does the same thing as ibuprofen, regardless of whether that’s scientifically correct. Thus it’s easy…

Having a bad liver at old age. Is these issues contribute to earlier death? Can it be proven to linked to paracetamol? No. So we know nothing basically

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#92

Post by masklinn »

wiz21c wrote: post #75
nobody9999 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For people like me it’s simply not even an option. Good. More for me. ;) More seriously, you're absolutely right. Which is why even folks who can take ibuprofen should only do so within appropriate limits (IIUC, 2400mg/day maximum). I have spinal issues (disc degeneration, stenosis) which have, in the past, caused serious amounts of pain. If that pain is acute and not too serious, ibuprofen has been a life saver for…

I totally concur. Got a condition comparable to yours and ibuprofen makes a real difference whereas paracetamol just doesn't do anything. Dunno why.

Does it have an inflammatory component?

Paracetamol is an analgesic and antipyretic, but it is not anti-inflammatory. And there are other divergences e.g. ibuprofen has been linked to protecting against Parkinson’s, where neither paracetamol nor aspirin (which is an anti-inflammatory) have shown such property.

The TLDR is that they’re different molecules, and while they have overlap in their antipyretic and analgesic properties, that does not make them substitutable in all cases.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#93

Post by evanb »

shusaku wrote: post #21

The article says > Peer-Reviewed Publication But the article seems to describe an upcoming poster?

Some fields' conferences have refereed talks and posters, so it's not automatically suspicious. A prominent field where this is standard is computer science! Not sure about this particular instance, however.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#94

Post by bratbag »

szundi wrote: post #90
a_c wrote: post #87

I used to have the impression that the advance of LLM is peak human ignorance - we know how things work in a recipe like fashion, but not why. I even compared this with tribal rituals - follow a recipe with a probably misguided why. News like this gradually make me realize that this is how human wisdom have long been working, discovery and invention first, understanding later.

Hopefully we realize and reach the off-switch before too late

Are you suicidal, or is there a deeper meaning to your comment that I missed?

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#95

Post by masklinn »

paganel wrote: post #51
ahonhn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been years since I've seen any bottles or packs of full dose Aspirin in a pharmacy here (Singapore). Seems like nowadays you can only get those low-dose tablets for blood thinning and they cost a fortune (compared to generic Panadol or what normal Aspirin used to cost)

Here in Romania I always have aspirin at hand. I take a pill of ibuprofen every once in a while when I have a bad headache, and paracetamol-based drugs only as a last resort when I have a bad cold or similar.

Same here, aspirin is as accessible as ibuprofen and paracetamol. I’ve switched away from it for the odd pain management, but mostly because I get nosebleeds easily, and aspirin is not helpful then.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#96

Post by masklinn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #27
lispisok wrote: post #2

I've always though Aspirin was a deprecated drug but lately I've heard reports from people who claim it's the only thing that helps their arthritis or other issues. Maybe there is something behind it.

As far as I know, aspirin is the one NSAID that doesn't potentially raise risks of heart attacks or strokes. Other drugs also can be hard on the liver and kidneys.

TBF it literally does the opposite, even in countries which have (culturally?) switched away from aspirin as an analgesic, it’s still in use as a blood thinner for stroke prevention and management.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#97

Post by nextaccountic »

jeffparsons wrote: post #38
drKarl wrote: post #35

When I was a kid aspirin was used for everything, from a headache to fever, etc, now no one uses it anymore, and everyone uses paracetamol and ibuprofen instead...

It's shocking to me how we still refer to paracetamol and ibuprofen in the same breath when their relative risks are so different.

Which is riskier? One comment says it's paracetamol, another says it's ibuprofen..

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#98

Post by coldtea »

ahonhn wrote: post #26
coldtea wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aspirin deprecated? It's one of the most useful and most widespread in use drug on the planet - for far more than "arthritis". It's the WD-40 of drugs. Ah, it's even in TFA: "Aspirin, which is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug, is one of the most widely used medications in the world. It is used to treat pain, fever and inflammation, and an estimated 29 million people in the U.S. take it daily to reduce the risk o…

Its been years since I've seen any bottles or packs of full dose Aspirin in a pharmacy here (Singapore). Seems like nowadays you can only get those low-dose tablets for blood thinning and they cost a fortune (compared to generic Panadol or what normal Aspirin used to cost)

Note that Aspirin is just a brand's name, and you could find the same thing under different names in different markets.

E.g. Panadol Extra is the same thing.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#99

Post by _2uwr »

szundi wrote: post #91
School-Cotton wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? Maybe acetaminophen (i.e. paracetamol) is many times more dangerous than ibuprofen, but still, in absolute terms it must be low if used according to guidelines. I mean, most people don’t know anyone who has died or been injured from acetaminophen, so from most normal people’s everyday perspective it simply does the same thing as ibuprofen, regardless of whether that’s scientifically correct. Thus it’s easy…

Having a bad liver at old age. Is these issues contribute to earlier death? Can it be proven to linked to paracetamol? No. So we know nothing basically

Having a bad liver will mean its not capable of generating enough glutathione. Paracetamol is a state licenced poison which depletes the body of glutathione. In order to replenish glutathione or help the liver recover from state licenced poisons like alcohol and paracetamol, take/increase cysteine. Some other experts will step in and say its hard to absorb from the gut so take N-Acetyl Cysteine aka NAC, but what they dont tell you about the acetyl part is it stimulates immune cells which then cause their own problems namely inflammation. Acetic Acid which is the Acetyl part of NAC lowers the GI of food, which is why adding vinegar to food is useful at reducing the blood sugar spike and used to be used in some diabetic conditions. The immune cells attack the sugars except starch. Ironically the liver also needs glucose to make glutathione, so what I havent established is this. Do we feed off our own immune cells or do we simply excrete them through the usual methods or a bit of both? If we are not catabolising and feeding off the immune cells which have attacked the food we have eaten, is our immune system helping us to stay slim and healthy?

On the subject of aspirin being a COX inhibitor, so are Omega 3's. Omega 3's interact with the COX enzyme's so their Nett Effect is tantamount to being a COX inhibitor! Omega-3's also reduce inflammation but they take several weeks to months to have a noticable effect, in which time, weather can improve which is cited as the cause of the improvements.

Short term once or twice use cases, Aspirin can be useful, but if anyone is needing to consume anti inflammatories like Aspirin, consider looking into dietary changes which can also reduce inflammation, like increasing Omega-3 intake.

On the point of the indoleamine dioxygenase, there are many enzymes which can target cancer, copper will increase some of the InterLeukins which modulate the immune response.

It is handy to know that aspirin slows the breakdown of the amino acid tryptophan into its metabolite kynurenine by inhibiting associated enzymes called indoleamine dioxygenases, or IDOs.

I'll have to try taking some aspirin with some tryptophan on an empty stomach or protein free meal so that the tryptophan is not crowded out by the handful of amino acids typically found in meat and other protein sources at the blood brain barrier, in order to see if it will improve my mood. Blue light exposure via the eyes is needed to increase the serotonin in the brain according to some studies.

Re: New insights into why aspirin works so well

#100

Post by morsch »

nextaccountic wrote: post #97
jeffparsons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking to me how we still refer to paracetamol and ibuprofen in the same breath when their relative risks are so different.

Which is riskier? One comment says it's paracetamol, another says it's ibuprofen..

He's probably referring to paracetamol's narrow therapeutic index[1]. 1 paracetamol may relieve your headache, 10 will do lasting damage to your liver, or even be fatal[2]. It's kind of nuts. Of course, Ibuprofen is not without (GI) issues, but I don't think it kills as many people as paracetamol does.

[1] The therapeutic index (TI; also referred to as therapeutic ratio) is a quantitative measurement of the relative safety of a drug. It is a comparison of the amount of a therapeutic agent that causes the therapeutic effect to the amount that causes toxicity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_index

[2] Paracetamol toxicity is the foremost cause of acute liver failure in the Western world, and accounts for most drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

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