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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#91

Post by kalleboo »

charlieflowers wrote: post #20
gretch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the concern of the bill is and it's completely transparent. Just read the first 2 pages of the bill and you can see the concern is, in the words of the bill, a "foreign adversary" and their ability to "sabotage or subversion of the design, integrity, manufacturing, production, distribution, installation, operation, or maintenance of information and communications technology products and services in th…

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

> Surprising then that we don't ban Hondas and Toyotas

This is a holdover from the US supporting the development of industry in Japan to keep them from turning communist (which was a real threat back in the 60's and 70's)

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#93

Post by ramblenode »

abeppu wrote: post #62

What I don't get is why we didn't pursue something in the WTO years ago. China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market, but its companies can provide such a service to US customers? Is that not protectionism? If we're afraid that China will use TikTok to push their propaganda in the US, we should be appropriately concerned that banning a platform to stop targeted speech is in conflict with our…

> China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market

> If western social media companies were able to offer their services in China

I've seen this meme floating around a lot recently and feel the need to add in some relevant history.

Between the mid and late aughts Google, Facebook, and Twitter were all operating in China. Around this time the Chinese government got very serious about content filtering and imposed new restrictions on what could be shown/uploaded. There was a very strong backlash from the US side that American companies might be helping to build the Great Firewall. Many Americans were outraged and US politicians warned the companies not to build infrastructure that could be used for censorship. So the American companies acquiesced and either left the market or were banned (Twitter).

I remember the outrage back then. It's like what I see now but with the facts reversed! Back then the concern was that American tech companies would export infrastructure that could be used by China for social control. Now it's "China won't allow American tech companies!".

"We've always/never been at war with EastAsia."

Kind of disturbing stuff. Watch the congressional hearing of the TikTok CEO and tell me that the powers who are pushing this care about facts.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#94

Post by gretch »

madeofpalk wrote: post #53
holler wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has banned nearly all US social networks already so is this really surprising given the current status quo?

Because China has strict censorship laws, so should the US?

We shouldn't adopt 'general censorship' positions, but if China censors US media, then the US should center Chinese media.

I believe in reciprocity. If someone treating you poorly, there's no reason you need to keep allowing them to walk over you.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#95

Post by justinzollars »

> To authorize the Secretary of Commerce to review and prohibit certain transactions between persons in the United States and foreign adversaries, and for other purposes.

> The term “transaction” means any acquisition, importation, transfer, installation, dealing in, or use of any information and communications technology product or service, including ongoing activities such as managed services, data transmission, software updates, repairs, or the provision of data hosting services, or a class of such transactions.

> includes, unless removed by the Secretary pursuant to section 6—

(i) the People’s Republic of China, including the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Macao Special Administrative Region;

(ii) the Republic of Cuba;

(iii) the Islamic Republic of Iran;

(iv) the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea;

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#96

Post by iudqnolq »

kirse wrote: post #66
charlieflowers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

Actual #1. TikTok is banned in China, but in their similar app (Douyin) their kids are limited to 40min a day and restricted from a lot of the digital opium drip that US kids are receiving in infinite quantities. Sounds like it'd only be fair to follow suit if China itself is limiting the poisoning of their own citizens: https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2023/03/24/douyin-tiktok...

Only if you think

a) the Chinese goverment is right

and b) TikTok is notably worse than American social media.

I, for example, disagree with both. I think the Chinese government is wrong about a lot of things, including the right way to raise kids. And I think TikTok is no worse than Instagram.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#97

Post by ecshafer »

ramblenode wrote: post #93
abeppu wrote: post #62

What I don't get is why we didn't pursue something in the WTO years ago. China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market, but its companies can provide such a service to US customers? Is that not protectionism? If we're afraid that China will use TikTok to push their propaganda in the US, we should be appropriately concerned that banning a platform to stop targeted speech is in conflict with our…

> China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market > If western social media companies were able to offer their services in China I've seen this meme floating around a lot recently and feel the need to add in some relevant history. Between the mid and late aughts Google, Facebook, and Twitter were all operating in China. Around this time the Chinese government got very serious about content filter…

There has been a very large increase in aggressive talk vs China. It feels very strange considering these same areas were against economic warfare with China when Trump was in Charge, and I would be money were against the Iraq and/or Afghanistan wars at some point. The "facts" don't matter. For what its worth, my memory is in line with yours, the back lash was absolutely on the US side.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#98

Post by lurker919 »

Gigachad wrote: post #77
jml7c5 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't really relevant to the topic of Chinese ownership, unless you believe the government told TikTok to actively promote those videos. The stupid destruction trends seem organic to me, and did not require CCP interference.

Tiktok is not just a dumb video host. They chose the content they show to users. And the content their system is shoving in users faces is destructive.

Are you saying there are engineers sitting behind their laptops who upvote the "bathroom destruction" trend in some kind of global dashboard? You sound very certain about the degree of control they have over recommendation systems.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#99

Post by SparkyMcUnicorn »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #73

While I don't personally mind banning Tik Toc since I think that it is a drain on our culture and is likely addictive, I do have serious concerns: Why nothing about US media companies pushing advertising based on data that really should be protected by privacy laws? Why nothing about the material released from Twitter by Matt Taibi, et. al.? Very concerning stuff for a country talking the talk about democracy. Why no…

> Why not enforce limits on what kids can watch and for how long, as China does? While I am all for free speech and liberty for adults, I think it is necessary for parents to put some guardrails on their kids.

This is the parent's job. Kids can't even play in the front yard without CPS being called, and adding more complexities like this sounds like an even worse nightmare.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#100

Post by mustacheemperor »

ramblenode wrote: post #93
abeppu wrote: post #62

What I don't get is why we didn't pursue something in the WTO years ago. China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market, but its companies can provide such a service to US customers? Is that not protectionism? If we're afraid that China will use TikTok to push their propaganda in the US, we should be appropriately concerned that banning a platform to stop targeted speech is in conflict with our…

> China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market > If western social media companies were able to offer their services in China I've seen this meme floating around a lot recently and feel the need to add in some relevant history. Between the mid and late aughts Google, Facebook, and Twitter were all operating in China. Around this time the Chinese government got very serious about content filter…

>or were banned (Twitter)

So companies that refuse to build tools for compliance with China's unique censorship/control policies are not allowed in the country. Most American tech companies opted to leave voluntarily rather than implement these controls, and at least one that did not implement the controls or voluntarily leave was instead forcibly banned.

I see the point you're making here, but at the same time, I think the situation as explained here can still be viewed as China not allowing American tech companies to operate in China the way those companies want to do business.

Has the US provided ByteDance with an opportunity to become compliant with this country's requirements that it has opted against? That would seem very similar to what transpired with Twitter in China.

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