I created a discord server here for everyone to connect: https://discord.gg/TyQfcSZk Hope this helps.
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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
91–100 of 342 posts
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#92It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…
I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Of course, it wouldn't be 1:1 mapping, but a collective tech union-like open institution would go far in leveraging against hostile employers. CEOs get golden parachutes on signing. It's time tech workers start demanding what their exit package looks like in case of layoffs/reductions against thei…
Like quite a lot of guilds and unions, the actor's guild started out by defending workers rights against a restrictive system (in that case, the Hollywood studio system) but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else.
We really, really don't want that in tech. Tech is one of the few segments of the economy where skill trumps credentials and connections for people entering the field. As a result, tech benefits from a lot of talent that would be ignored by more traditional methods of filtering candidates.
And what would tech workers gain? Unions don't stop layoffs -- look at the past few decades in the auto industry for proof. Unions would also negotiate standard pay packages that might be attractive to low performers, but would hold high performers back. Plus, severance packages are already legally mandated for layoffs in the places where the majority of tech workers live.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
The number of engineers isn’t the limiting factor competing against google, it’s the innovation/talent. While most engineers even at google aren’t working on hard problems, there’s a few who’re solving distributed computing/gfs/page rank/etc and those individuals are definitely not being laid off. The others use their tools to solve business problems.
I don't think it's the number of engineers or the innovation/talent. I think it's the sheer economic advantage of being a huge multinational corporation.
It's pretty clear at this point that Google's bigness is holding it back.
Milking money from ads is all they can do. Innovation is very hard when everything has to go through many layers of approvals and there are constant re-orgs. People are fighting over small slices of the pie, rather than growing the pie.
If the ad money stops rolling in, Google is done.
Smaller, more agile companies are usually where innovation comes from. Google accomplished most of the good things it did when it was small.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some of the best engineers I've ever worked don't even have a bachelor's degree. These autodidacts will suffer greatly if the wrong kind of "software guild" gains control over licensing tech employees.
SAG doesn't require a degree in screen acting. It's a little convoluted but they basically operate mainly on proof of work. That sort of system would probably give self taught engineers who spent their years from 18-22 doing actual work a huge leg up compared to those who were in school during that time doing no work on any projects for any company.
Those people have a huge leg up right now in large swaths of the industry anyway.
The issue with the "proof of work" standard is it sets up a difficult conundrum. You need to work to join the guild, and you need to be a guild member to get most work.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#95It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…
I just don't understand the incentive and it seems like it would end up as a race to the bottom, no? Perhaps maybe its a good starting point for developers or those just wanting smooth sailing... but for others... why stay in a "system" with a low ceiling? They could take a risk and create a startup and earn much more. >We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them.…
With the way investors handle things these days the ceiling for founders is a lot lower than you think.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like Anarcho-syndicalism[1]. I am rooting for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism#:~:text=An... .
We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
...
King Arthur: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis the Peasant: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cos some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them. Why wouldn't the traditional approach of starting a company to sell those things work? Co-ops have never been a successful software business model. Not even once that I can think of. That model seems to work ok for open source, but since you are talking about building things people will pay for, I'm not seeing how it w…
A co-op can mean a lot of things, but in particular it means an employee-owned business. For all of the reasons not to get behind the idea of a company without a billionaire at the top, the Hobbesian faith in the monarch could be the worst one. The functional difference between a co-op and a normal business could be as small as having a board that is informed (because the shareholders are employees and naturally very…
Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one.
I honestly can't find any.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Past that, why do you want to hang out with other people who are doing poorly when you could be hanging out with people who are doing better?
Being laid off does not equate to doing poorly. Some people just get cut because some people who wear suits to work seem to not care.
Or maybe too many people got hired by some guy in a hoodie because they were afraid any talented people they didn’t hire would work for a startup that puts them out of business or that they feel they need to spend $15 billion to buy so they don’t face competition.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
A co-op can mean a lot of things, but in particular it means an employee-owned business. For all of the reasons not to get behind the idea of a company without a billionaire at the top, the Hobbesian faith in the monarch could be the worst one. The functional difference between a co-op and a normal business could be as small as having a board that is informed (because the shareholders are employees and naturally very…
Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one. I honestly can't find any.
My point is that pretty much every business is an example of what a co-op could do, because the differences are small on an operational level. It's an ownership structure, not a management structure.
Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just don't understand the incentive and it seems like it would end up as a race to the bottom, no? Perhaps maybe its a good starting point for developers or those just wanting smooth sailing... but for others... why stay in a "system" with a low ceiling? They could take a risk and create a startup and earn much more. >We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them.…
With the way investors handle things these days the ceiling for founders is a lot lower than you think.
How would you achieve similar comp in the system OP describes?