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Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#91
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I mean that is kind of the _ultimate_ goal isn't it? -Vaccinate the population, eliminate the disease in humans -Eliminate the disease in any of its natural reservoirs Once you're certain it's gone why continue vaccination? There's cost to that and those resources can then be dedicated to "active" diseases (perhaps with the instructions for that vaccine archived somehow).

Yes, that's the point. But you continue on until the disease is eradicated, not just until a person's individual anecdote is that they don't know of anyone who has had it recently. That's the point when vaccination can safely cease.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#92
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

> it's so frustrating I feel the same way developing software - the only thing that ever matters, and has ever mattered (at least since I started developing software in 1992) is "meeting the date". Whatever corners can be cut to make the date are cut, and then the thing breaks in fairly predictable ways because corners were cut. It's maddeningly infuriating and I'm not even dealing with people's lives here. I can't e…

Not sure what you are equating this to in software, but if it is security vulnerabilities, incompetence has probably more to do with it than time pressure. It takes about the time to write a parametrised query than to concatenate your strings.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#93
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I mean that is kind of the _ultimate_ goal isn't it? -Vaccinate the population, eliminate the disease in humans -Eliminate the disease in any of its natural reservoirs Once you're certain it's gone why continue vaccination? There's cost to that and those resources can then be dedicated to "active" diseases (perhaps with the instructions for that vaccine archived somehow).

The problem is that second step is EXTREMELY difficult to conduct and confirm. Given that and the extremely low risk of issues with vaccinations why risk it. We thought we were close with polio but there's been some recent back sliding on that front even here in the US with some weakened versions of the virus successfully infecting unvaccinated people.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#95
post #27
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I've never used the guard on that machine, and never had my hand cut off...

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead. Or fire codes. Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen,…

> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years Really? Do you know _anyone_ who does that? What will the professional do that we don't -- take a look at the charge level, take a look at manufacturer date?

> What will the professional do that we don't -- take a look at the charge level, take a look at manufacturer date?

Here in Germany, the checklist is as follows - and government as well as insurances can and do audit companies if that is being followed:

- check for accessibility: is the location of the extinguisher properly marked on maps and does the wall have visible indicators that show where the extinguisher is? Can the extinguisher be reached and grabbed in an emergency or has random clutter accumulated next to it? Are the maps and indicator designs outdated? Are the indicator signs autoflourescent to make them visible even in the case of a fire-caused electrical blackout? Are there enough maps publicly visible that everyone can access one in case of emergency?

- for wall mounts: check if the holder is structurally sound or if someone ripped out half the screws by bumping into it?

- check if the tank itself hasn't expired. A tank usually is certified for ten years.

- inspect the extinguisher visually, look for dents etc. that may have led to corrosion of the tank or damage to the hose/nozzle (and subsequently a rupture risk should it be used). That is a very common occurrence in portable extinguishers that have been used as door stops.

- check if the extinguisher has been used / the seal been broken. If yes, that demands a full replacement of consumable parts (pressurizer agent, extinguisher agent, seals).

- check if the interior of the tank has been damaged by corrosion

- check if the pressurizer agent is not expired (most extinguishers here aren't permanently pressurized, instead they contain a CO2 cartridge) and weigh the cartridge to make sure it hasn't leaked

- check all O-rings and replace if necessary

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#97
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

I mean that is kind of the _ultimate_ goal isn't it? -Vaccinate the population, eliminate the disease in humans -Eliminate the disease in any of its natural reservoirs Once you're certain it's gone why continue vaccination? There's cost to that and those resources can then be dedicated to "active" diseases (perhaps with the instructions for that vaccine archived somehow).

Getting to the point where the disease is really gone is not an easy state to reach. Polio has been eradicated, yet we have small, latent pockets pop up every now and then. London in 2022, for instance: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61900915

I'm all for getting rid of useless things, but the long tail for diseases appears to be extremely long and resilient.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#98
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things like dual staircase requirements, elevator size requirements, and sprinkler requirements make it extremely expensive to build any sort of housing. And you want and need precisely that in a house with fluctuating occupants of which a high percentage will have some sort of mental health issue. Cutting corners on boarding houses will lead to fire catastrophes.

> Cutting corners on boarding houses will lead to fire catastrophes. Nobody denies this. The question is whether said fire catastrophes really claim more lives than homelessness and wintering on the street. (Obviously fire catastrophes are a bigger PR problem and get more media attention, but is that really the appropriate metric for human suffering?)

They don't, but fire catastrophes are one of the most gruesome ways to die - and worse, a fire can always spread around and endanger even more people. There are reasons why fire codes are among the oldest laws in humanity.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not because of building codes. That's because of people who don't believe in helping their fellow man through, oh I don't know, paying taxes, supporting the welfare state, paying living wages etc.

> don't believe in helping their fellow man Well, ok, since you started it - how much do you, personally, donate to homeless shelters and food banks? You have a lot of discretionary income to do so since your taxes are lower than you appear that you would like them to be.

Do you? If not, the SF Marin food bank would love your help! As little as a $20 one time donation would be appreciated. If you have an excess of time, in person volunteering is also deeply appreciated.

Spoiler alert: Unfortunately, no matter how much money or time you give to this organization, or similar, the ills of capitalism inflicted on the poorest residents in the area won't be solved.

I still donate anyway though.

https://donate.sfmfoodbank.org/page/32140/donate/1

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#100

In a twist of fate, the Chamber of Civil Engineers building is one of the few that withstood the quake. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/10yw2...

>is one of the few that withstood the quake.

but in that picture, you can plainly see a bunch of other buildings in the background that also have "withstood" the quake?

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