Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#91

Post by redeeman » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 12:42 AM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #89

redeeman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats funny, because traditionally when a company signs with a union, there are semi standardized rates of pay for certain amount of experience and education etc, and then companies tend to go "well this is what we agreed to with the union", and the worker is in a very bad position to negotiate different. You already have all the power in the world, YOU, the worker, can decide what you're willing to do, and what you…

You seem to be missing the whole point of a union - “collective bargaining”. If one worker at UPS says “give me air conditioning in my truck or I refuse to work”, management will just fire them. If every worker at UPS says the same thing, the company is put in a serious position and must negotiate. This has nothing to do with how smart the workers are. A single worker does not have the power that a union has. A singl…

you are not responding to my argument. if a single UPS worker has demands, sure, they will just be fired, but why cannot every single UPS worker have their own set of demands? why must they scheme and plot together? if the demands of the union is reasonably similar to what the individual feels anyway, why cant they just put up those constraints directly in the job negotiations?

if UPS can then find enough guys that truly do not care about no aircondition, or feels that the compensation is fair for services rendered(including conditions thereof), is that not fine? do delivery drivers that demands aircondition have a divine right to get their way?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#92

Post by TaylorAlexander » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

redeeman wrote: post #91

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be missing the whole point of a union - “collective bargaining”. If one worker at UPS says “give me air conditioning in my truck or I refuse to work”, management will just fire them. If every worker at UPS says the same thing, the company is put in a serious position and must negotiate. This has nothing to do with how smart the workers are. A single worker does not have the power that a union has. A singl…

you are not responding to my argument. if a single UPS worker has demands, sure, they will just be fired, but why cannot every single UPS worker have their own set of demands? why must they scheme and plot together? if the demands of the union is reasonably similar to what the individual feels anyway, why cant they just put up those constraints directly in the job negotiations? if UPS can then find enough guys that t…

I did in fact directly respond to your argument. Whether you like my response is another thing.

> why must they scheme and plot together?

Because it is effective.

> do delivery drivers that demands aircondition have a divine right to get their way?

Nope. But they absolutely do have the capability to organize. And if they decide that organizing is in their interest, they will do so. Although I do believe unions are generally good, this is not about right or wrong. This is about interests. It is in the interest of the business to pay the workers as little as possible, and it is in the interest of the workers to find ways to raise their pay and other benefits. They can choose to negotiate as individuals or they can choose to form a union.

You seem to be grasping for reasons why they don’t need a union, but I don’t find your position tenable. If there were truly no difference between having a union or not having one, then unions would never exist. The truth is there is a long history of unions and we wouldn’t have the 40 hour work week, paid maternity leave, and other benefits if it weren’t for the hard work of union organizing in this country.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#93

Post by nebula8804 » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 9:15 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #87

nebula8804 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but if they raise the cost in just the UK that is effectively a tax on everyone in favor of the unions. There is little to no loss on Apple's part in the long run.

So you believe that Apple could raise prices without hurting their sales, but are currently not doing so and are leaving money on the table?

If they market it right, yes possibly. In fact they are one of the few companies that could possibly increase sales by doing this(they are the ones who really popularized 1000$ smartphone segment). It is easier for them to do this if they have a scapegoat.