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Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

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Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#91

Post by rightbyte »

IshKebab wrote: post #83
Timshel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish those transaction cost would be made visible. Imo the seller should not care which card the client use, if it's more expensive to use a "premium" card then it should be made visible to the client and he should be the one to pay the overhead.

Yes this is all that needs to happen. The EU should mandate that sellers can pass transaction costs on to consumers if they want (but no more than transaction costs, looking at you airlines).

It is important that the fee is printed on the receipt too no matter what since the card holder always pay one way or the other.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#92

Post by enedil »

sgjohnson wrote: post #37
that_guy_iain wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, they can't. But no one is enforcing it because there is a plan to change the law.

No. Technically it's illegal to provide such service, not receive it. Fun fact, this very website is not GDPR compliant. I've never ever seen a cookie notice on HN, which is legally required. Of course, none of this is relevant, because AFAIK HN has no physical presence in the EU, but still, this site is not GDPR compliant, which just outlines how stupid GDPR actually is.

I don't think you are right. Right now, the only cookie present is my session cookie. This should fall under obvious reason to have a cookie (it's not a tracking cookie). The sets of required and of all cookies are identical. Therefore, a dialog like this changes nothing.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#93

Post by dahfizz »

abm53 wrote: post #35
bjackman wrote: post #10

I have been pondering transaction costs lately. Seems like this is an area where intervention could have massive impact: these costs are effectively a tax that incurs deadweight loss so according to prevailing economic theory if we can reduce it the whole economy should be catalysed. IIUC governments already introduce price caps for certain elements of this market but I think we could be doing more? Like mandating in…

On the other hand, transaction networks clearly add massive value, so it’s very likely that net of fees (without which the network may not exist at all) these networks still add value. So it’s more a question of finding the optimal equilibrium rather than viewing fees as “deadweight”.

"Dead weight loss" is an economic term. It sounds like a generic English phrase but it has a very specific meaning and formula.

[1] if you are interested. Particularly the section on the dead weight loss of taxes - in this case, transaction fees operate the same as taxes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#94

Post by throwaway67743 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #87
throwaway67743 wrote: post #12

It says something when traditional banks are basically the same price now and are almost as good in features (and many other card processors are cheaper, especially if eg you stick to a processor in the EU for EU cards) - I'm not sure why anyone would pick Stripe anymore, especially as they have just as many "hidden" costs as others (eg fraud stuff)

is one of the features that they're as easy to set up? on edit: actually serious question, have been away from this area for a while but thinking about making a personal project soon.

For quite a while they've been trying to emulate fintech style ease, and to some degree they have made it (although most still insist on their own hosted gateways, which is fine as SAQ D compliance is a real chore) - they do things like OOB webhooks etc, like Stripe/Paypal/whoever do, so really the flow and integration is pretty much the same

edit: my experience only applies to UK (which were better and cheaper way before EU) and EU banks, the US is a minefield that actually is better avoided by just paying higher fees to a popular processor rather than deal with banks who think its the 1800s)

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#95

Post by throwaway67743 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #56
throwaway67743 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes taking cards via Stripe completely untenable as anyone can dispute a legit charge and you're still out of pocket - imagine being charged 20 EUR for a 3 eur order even if the customer actually ordered it and just felt like being a dick

You just refund 3€ order and move on. This is the reason why marketplaces implement sophisticated solutions for returns — sometimes it is cheaper to let a few customers to get their product for free than to spend ton of money on returns, refunds and legal disputes. You can always reflect this risk in your prices.

My comment was specifically where the customer is being a dick, ie; not asking for a refund, or being refunded and then disputing it anyway (in which case you're now 20+3+fees down which is even worse)

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#96

Post by doikor »

IshKebab wrote: post #83
Timshel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish those transaction cost would be made visible. Imo the seller should not care which card the client use, if it's more expensive to use a "premium" card then it should be made visible to the client and he should be the one to pay the overhead.

Yes this is all that needs to happen. The EU should mandate that sellers can pass transaction costs on to consumers if they want (but no more than transaction costs, looking at you airlines).

> EU should mandate that sellers can pass transaction costs on to consumers

EU actually mandates the opposite. It is illegal to pass the transaction costs to the consumer. The price you see on an item has the be the final price you end up paying.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#97

Post by thiscatis »

avianlyric wrote: post #90
thiscatis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been in some of the same conversations, although I'm a big believer in Hanlon's razor, if someone suggests that for an OpenBanking payment the "authentication" should be the bank calling the user and having them listend to a 45 second message to then key in a confirmation code it's no longer stupidity, it's creating artificial barriers. The same bank can perfectly do quicker ACS with OTP or tap to confirm usin…

You should see some of the fraud cases that happen via open banking and faster payments. It’s an extremely difficult problem to deal with because there is no dispute mechanism in the faster payment flow, and Faster Payments are not interested in adding one. As a consequence, once the payment is authorise, the moneys gone, and getting back is almost impossible. Fraudsters have been taking huge advantage of this, and r…

I'm very happy that the banks take fraud seriously, even if it delays innovation because the current chargeback flow is horribly broken for everyone involved except the schemes.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#98

Post by thiscatis »

petesergeant wrote: post #88
thiscatis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they give more benefits (insurance, lounge access, cashback etc...) and someone has to pay for this (i.e. the merchants). For example R̶e̶v̶o̶l̶u̶t̶ ̶M̶e̶t̶a̶l̶ premium cards and corporate cards which offers benefits such as lounge access to pay-to-use lounges, travel insurance, cashback etc.. are mostly designed by the schemes in parternship with the issuing banks. Also note that mostly in the US and Europe…

> example the Revolut Metal card Right but that’s not a premium card and neither is Amex, so this doesn’t follow

The Revolut Metal (personal, not revolut business) example might not be the best one (see also my other reply) however the reason I mention is still the same, someone has to pay for the benefits these premium cards offer, the interchange on these is higher.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#99

Post by throwaway67743 »

Symbiote wrote: post #57
throwaway67743 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only applies to the card networks not merchants or processors, but there is also a dual rate system that the EU are obsessed with where intra EU is much cheaper, they mandated the same for voice calls too, it's very dumb and just insulates the EU further (which is their plan it seems)

Yours is a rare anti-EU comment arguing that the EU should extends its regulation beyond its borders/citizens.

It is neither an anti EU comment nor arguing for extending regulation beyond its borders, but alright

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#100

Post by throwaway67743 »

hocuspocus wrote: post #58
throwaway67743 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only applies to the card networks not merchants or processors, but there is also a dual rate system that the EU are obsessed with where intra EU is much cheaper, they mandated the same for voice calls too, it's very dumb and just insulates the EU further (which is their plan it seems)

It doesn't apply to the card scheme, it applies to interchange, i.e. the part that goes back to the card issuer. I don't see how that is dumb, the EU cannot do anything about issuers outside of it, and PSPs have to reflect the huge difference in interchange fees one way or another.

Correct, merchants do not charge interchange, banks/networks do, and its dumb because it increases the costs of doing business in the EU (which as I said, makes it more insular)
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