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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#91

Post by buildbot »

alar44 wrote: post #78
dopylitty wrote: post #44

I’ve said it before but I’ll keep pounding the drum that the FLSA needs to be completely rewritten. Any work more than 8 hours in a day should result in overtime pay regardless of type of work or base salary. It’s ridiculous that companies can force people to work 24/7 with no extra pay just because those people happen to work with computers or in "knowledge" work. And even developers/IT folks are largely not making…

It's not that simple though. I'm an IT Director. A good chunk of my time is just thinking and not doing. It's impossible to measure the amount of work I do in a day because I'm thinking about stuff when I shower, or am walking the dog etc. Do I sit at my laptop 8 hours a day? Fuck no. Do I work 8 hours a day? Probably, but it's hard to say. I can't say "I worked for 9.5 hours today" because it's impossible to measure…

I think it is pretty simple - do you have to be somewhere or be available for more than 8 hours a day? If you are 24/7 on call for issues, that deserves a huge pay bump. In other fields it's even more true - doctors for example, when oncall, have to be ready to work at a moments notice. So no drinking or other recreational drugs, or going skiing somewhere remote, or being out of cell range... If it effects you life for more than 8 hours a day, you should be payed for that.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#92

Post by kevstev »

nixgeek wrote: post #25

I’ve noticed that in larger technology companies there has also been a trend towards getting a “Manager” title but leading a team of 1-2 people. Maybe there will be intent to grow this to 3-4 people or more in future years, but that hinders giving others a title and their own small team (which can be considered career progression). Then you might see another leader (Manager of Managers, or “MoM”) who has 5 of these s…

I got stuck in this trap for a bit at my last job. I was called a "manager" and expected to do all of the managerial bits, but only had 2 others on my team that were very junior. Yet I was still expected to take on a full IC load, yet also deal with all the upwards reporting stuff, and I had to "find the resources" for all the forced work that was being put on us, and there was tons of it- datacenter moves, all kinds of transparent changes that were happening beneath us but still needed someone to "check out" on the weekends to ensure things weren't broken, etc. And of course any outage that happened, my name was front and center, but big successes, it was in there... somewhere. This was during covid, and headcount was always "about to be approved" but Covid. But this. But that...

Never again will I fall into that trap.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#93

Post by realslimjd »

pxue wrote: post #13
willcipriano wrote: post #10

I worked for a restaurant that did this to me. To make sure I hit the "minimum hours" (when you start talking about hours vs tasks or responsibilities you probably aren't getting into a legitimate salary arrangement) they would have me clock in and out, and I'd get pay stubs with 40 hours (less if I worked less) and the overtime hours paid at $0. They withheld my last paycheck when I quit and stopped responding to my…

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

What do unions have to do with small government? A union contract is an agreement between two private parties.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#94

Post by ddulaney »

throwaway181747 wrote: post #90

Much like how coders like to call themselves "engineers" - a term that has actual accreditation and certifications attached to it, but somehow not in the computer science space, weird.

Eh, it's pretty nuanced. Certification, rigor, and lots of other things that software folks associate with "real" engineering aren't actually that different between software and traditional engineering projects.

I recommend checking out Hillel Wayne's series where he interviews what he calls "crossovers", people that worked both in software and in traditional engineering: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/we-are-not-special/

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#95

Post by willcipriano »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #81
willcipriano wrote: post #10

I worked for a restaurant that did this to me. To make sure I hit the "minimum hours" (when you start talking about hours vs tasks or responsibilities you probably aren't getting into a legitimate salary arrangement) they would have me clock in and out, and I'd get pay stubs with 40 hours (less if I worked less) and the overtime hours paid at $0. They withheld my last paycheck when I quit and stopped responding to my…

> Couple weeks later they send me a check for 20 grand out of the blue Glad this ended up working out in your favor. Your story makes me wonder how often such a practice doesn't end with the employer forking up the 20 grand they stole. I guess I've heard it said that wage theft is the most common form of theft but this is still rather frustrating to think about. Does this sort of practice come with some other punishm…

Lots of people don't know about labor boards so I think they get away with it most of the time. In ten years across seven restaurants in the restaurant industry that was the only time I was paid time and a half for overtime, lots of places do cash overtime instead. Even the chains have stolen labor from me, did a month at Applebee's and the manager would "save me time" by clocking me out 15 - 20 minutes early at the end of the night (it took seconds to clock out). Illegal immigrants in particular know that they are unlikely to get their last pay in the restaurant industry, they aren't likely to sue or contact the authorities, they also get screwed on workers comp claims when they get injured. We talk a lot about unfairness for waitstaff but that's paradise compared to the back of the house. It's absolutely commonplace and likely happening at any restaurant you go to.

In PA they have to pay double whatever is collected, so they wrote a similar check to the labor board, that's how they are funded and I think it's revenue positive.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#96

Post by acdha »

Georgelemental wrote: post #66
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

Generally I am more suspicious of public sector unions than private. The power of private sector unions is counterbalanced by the profit motive of the company; meanwhile governments are often perfectly happy wasting a fortune in taxpayer dollars.

To the extent that the government wastes money, why should we believe that's due to a union and not unrelated issues such as outside politics?

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#97

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

jcadam wrote: post #75
qualudeheart wrote: post #20

Inflation for everything.

I've been a "Senior Engineer" for over 10 years now.

I work on internal web applications at a company who sells a physical product (read: not a tech company). I started the job when I was in my late 20s and my title was "Senior Something-or-other". Around the time I started, I told that to someone who works outside IT and their immediate response was, "You don't look very senior."

Yeah, tell me about it.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#98

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

willcipriano wrote: post #95
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Couple weeks later they send me a check for 20 grand out of the blue Glad this ended up working out in your favor. Your story makes me wonder how often such a practice doesn't end with the employer forking up the 20 grand they stole. I guess I've heard it said that wage theft is the most common form of theft but this is still rather frustrating to think about. Does this sort of practice come with some other punishm…

Lots of people don't know about labor boards so I think they get away with it most of the time. In ten years across seven restaurants in the restaurant industry that was the only time I was paid time and a half for overtime, lots of places do cash overtime instead. Even the chains have stolen labor from me, did a month at Applebee's and the manager would "save me time" by clocking me out 15 - 20 minutes early at the…

> In PA they have to pay double whatever is collected

That's exactly the thing I'd hope to see. It's unfortunate that it's such a process, considering how easy it is to simply not know.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#100

Post by [deleted] »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #97
jcadam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a "Senior Engineer" for over 10 years now.

I work on internal web applications at a company who sells a physical product (read: not a tech company). I started the job when I was in my late 20s and my title was "Senior Something-or-other". Around the time I started, I told that to someone who works outside IT and their immediate response was, "You don't look very senior." Yeah, tell me about it.

[deleted]
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