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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#91

Post by tmnvix »

zzzeek wrote: post #71

I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as t…

I live in a place without a tipping culture and significant income inequality.

I really don't like the idea that service in a bar might be prioritised according to who gives the biggest tips. That seems like highlighting inequality to me. It would go down very badly here. A queue is a queue. Queues are fair.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#92

Post by purpleblue »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

Most places in the world do not have tipping. The US has tipping because for some reason, the law allows restaurants to pay below minimum wage. I think that tipping should be outlawed and waiters should be paid a wage supported by the market, at least whatever minimum wage is (in California, that's $15.50/hr).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#93

Post by luckylion »

moomin wrote: post #21

I mean, the US could just get a decent welfare state like a grown-up country, but instead you have the worst paid members of society depending on tips.

Germany has "a decent welfare state". Wait staff depends on tips to make their job worthwhile. Not as badly as in the US, but there's a reason they weren't rushing back into the hospitality industry after the Covid lockdowns were lifted: when they had to work elsewhere, many realized how much more they'd make, how much easier the job is, and how much less abusive the bosses are.

Tipping is just a cultural thing, the welfare state doesn't have a lot to do with it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#94

Post by bscphil »

notch656c wrote: post #72
bscphil wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I delivered food A "token amount" is pretty reasonable if you take tipping at face value, no? It's supposed to be a reward for good service. Waitstaff engage with you many times over the course of about an hour, and every person at a table receives service. It's fairly reasonable in this case to tip in proportion to the total bill. On the contrary, it's roughly the same amount of work for a delivery driver to…

See my below post. The issue is the delivery driver has to pick up the order from a full service restaurant much of the time. The full service restaurant workers will blackball the delivery driver if he doesn't tip them, and that happens proportionally to the cost of the food. After 2-3 times the delivery driver not tipping the restaraunt at the food he's picking up, he will be waiting forever until his customers can…

Yeah, it's certainly an unfortunate situation all around - mostly for the restaurant staff who are dependent on the tips - but probably doesn't change much from the consumer's point of view. FWIW I've not had significant problems with delivery. I think a lot of restaurants have gotten used to "the new normal", though to be fair the majority of meals I've had delivered have been mediocre, sometimes cold.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#96

Post by tkuraku »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

Do you have the same productivity each week? Do you get paid less when you have a bad week?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#97

Post by scrollaway »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

So when you get bad service in the US, you don't tip?

I've gotten bad service while traveling in the US - how can I not tip? Someone tell me, please, because when I'm paying it's usually before I even get the service and I'm already supposed to pre-pay a 20 percent tip or some such from a checkout prompt that doesn't always let me opt out.

Or when it does let me opt out, it's in plain view of the staff, of course; in a "go ahead and hit 0%, take a chance on whether we'll shit in your food" kind of way.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#98

Post by purpleblue »

tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

I think instead tipping law should be that it is not be asked for until after the service is rendered. These days they will ask for tip BEFORE anything is served which makes me very upset. It traps you into paying and any incentive for good behavior is completely stolen.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#99

Post by jacktribe »

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either.

We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Also, some customers seem to think that the screen froze at the very end because it didn't ask for a tip.

While it has been strange to see some customer's determination to leave a tip, I think overall it was well received by the great majority of people that just didn't say anything about it and made a mental note that the prices they see on the menu is what they'll actually end up paying.

We will probably need to highlight that we pay a higher wage for baristas & cooks to account for the lack of tips, and give customers an option to donate to a charity if they still wish to part with additional money.

I do believe that the incentive tips provide for employees to "act" friendly to customers can be transferred over into a review/feedback program, which is what we will be testing out. If customers rate their order and interaction with the barista to be satisfactory, a bonus payment will be made to the baristas on shift. Once we introduce this, I'll share the results.

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