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Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#91

Post by amalgamated_inc »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #79
sethammons wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even CICO is not straight forward. It is a dynamic system. Eating more can cause increased metabolism and easting less can slow the metabolism.

It's not that complicated. Eating more leads to greater body mass, which requires higher caloric intake to sustain. Eating less leads to the opposite. If you gain 20 pounds, then you need to eat more relative to your previous weight in order to maintain your current weight (including that extra 20 pounds). If you lose 20 pounds, you have to eat less to maintain that new weight.

It's totally more complicated even long before that. Not eating "enough" (and you don't get to define this, your body does) leads the body to drastically reduce calorie burn, leading to "starvation mode" and the accompanying symptoms.

If, on the other hand, you manage to eat a lot of calories without activating certain biochemical switches (like one poster here mentions), you can build a lot of muscle without gaining too much fat. Some bodybuilders achieve this (allegedly even without steroid use).

The body is a dynamic system even before lean body mass changes come into play, on the order of 2-3 days.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#92

Post by themitigating »

amalgamated_inc wrote: post #85
glofish wrote: post #64

Recruited 17 (most likely non-random) people each of whom skipped a SINGLE breakfast, then had 3 regular days, then skipped a SINGLE dinner ... Basic common sense indicates that it would be highly unlikely that anything of value could possibly be learned. The variability between people, meals, state of their lives, backgrounds, habits, behaviors, schedules, etc must be staggering. Scientists will never admit to this…

+100 Big Science in nutrition, diet, and exercise is a grift. If the researcher is not also a practitioner (e.g. body builder or losing lots of weight) you can usually ignore the results. Also ignore any studies involving mice, food questionnaires or other self-reporting, meta-analyses..

"Big Science in nutrition, diet, and exercise is a grift"

What's "Big Science"? You are also claiming it's all a scam? Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise?

"If the researcher is not also a practitioner (e.g. body builder or losing lots of weight) you can usually ignore the results."

Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it? Wouldn't that make them more bias if they did?

"Also ignore any studies involving mice, food questionnaires or other self-reporting, meta-analyses.."

Why? Many times in the past people have stated that mice and other rodents aren't ideal subjects in studies that relate to humans but that doesn't appear to be the case

https://www.livescience.com/32860-why-do-medical-researchers...

And another article states 'Nobel-winning scientific achievements such as the discovery of vitamin K, the development of the polio vaccine, the invention of monoclonal antibody technology now used for cancer treatment, and the unravelling of how neurons talk with each other in the brain all would not have occurred without mice."

https://www.blood.ca/en/research/our-research-stories/resear...

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#93

Post by amalgamated_inc »

pitched wrote: post #19
arkadiyt wrote: post #3

> Meal skipping has become an increasing trend of the modern lifestyle that may lead to obesity I believe them that this is correct but does anyone know why? I thought all the "intermittent fasting" folks were losing weight?

> Compared with 3 meals/d, meal skipping increased energy expenditure. In contrast, higher postprandial insulin concentrations and increased fat oxidation with breakfast skipping suggest the development of metabolic inflexibility in response to prolonged fasting that may in the long term lead to low-grade inflammation and impaired glucose homeostasis. So, it sounds like short-term fasting is a good way to stress the…

I believe one of the benefits is that, compared to the typical 3-means-plus-17-snacks diet, it actually gives the body some time to destress from constantly eating and digesting.

Kind of like working out is good, but only if you give the body enough time to overcompensate between workouts.

E.g. if you snack on sugary stuff every few hours, your body will quite literally never get blood glucose under control except during your sleep, which is basically the definition of Type 2 diabetes.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#94

Post by amalgamated_inc »

pengaru wrote: post #67
jat850 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only by way of anecdotal experience, but if I skip a meal (or worse, two) I tend towards massive overindulgence at a later meal, and I don't have an innate sense for calorie intake estimation. So I will often end up eating far more calories at the later meal than I might have skipped in the earlier one. Not at all scientific, just 2 cents.

In my anecdotal experience, that's much more of a factor if my prevailing diet involves carbs - especially simple carbs/sweets. It feels more like a drug addiction I've briefly experienced withdrawal from before regaining abundant access. On a more keto/low-carb style diet it's a much different experience, for me.

Can confirm, same for me

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#95

Post by amalgamated_inc »

calr wrote: post #38

I have skipped breakfast since college when I was much more concerned about bulking up. I drink two coffees and that gets me through til lunch. I’ve never really considered alternatives to this routine. If I wanted to experiment with breakfasts what do people recommend eating? The priority would be energy levels, and mental clarity since I tend to work better in the morning.

"Give me all the eggs & bacon you have."

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#96

Post by amalgamated_inc »

fwungy wrote: post #74

I pretty much just believe the opposite of what the government says at this point. Lol. The only people I know who have beaten obesity long term have done it with some combination of IF/keto/paleo. Everybody else backslides.

Even there, the success rate is only maybe 25%. But at least they have some successes to show :)

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#97

Post by Kukumber »

sh4rks wrote: post #86
Kukumber wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

morning: - infusion: ginger + mint + lemon + green tea (or yerba mate) - fruit: banana or dried fig - seeds: slice of whole grain bread or almonds or any else you like, vary middle of the day: - eggs with spices and herbs - vegies with lot of fiber or veggies pasta - minutes later: infusion: ginger + mint + lemon + green tea (or yerba mate) evening (only if hungry): - toast with eggs and lot of different spices and h…

You eat a 1000 calories a day?

I don't know, i don't count, try to listen to your body and what it needs, blood analysis every so often to make sure you don't have deficiencies in certain nutrients

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#98

Post by makeitdouble »

idopmstuff wrote: post #15
arkadiyt wrote: post #3

> Meal skipping has become an increasing trend of the modern lifestyle that may lead to obesity I believe them that this is correct but does anyone know why? I thought all the "intermittent fasting" folks were losing weight?

I don't believe them that this is correct - almost all the studies I've seen point to the opposite. Here's a review of related RCTs that comes to the opposite conclusion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8469355/

I’m not sure that’s the case from your linked meta-study. As usual the summary hides the nuance and issues in the individual studies. I went though a bunch of them, and to give my own summary lacking nuance: not convinced.

Looking at the linked studies that went for more than a week, we have this one for instance that appears to show good results for IF:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6682944/

Except it’s a trial on 10 people in an already severly pathological situation. That might apply to some of us, but it’s far from a generic study.

Or this one, which reports memory issues from IF (an also only targeted subjects with obesity)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7146388

Or this one, which showed improvement through the trial, but with no significant distinction between the two method tested, which could mean the effect could be from the observation of the subjects themselves:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29778565

Most of the study were interesting, but no brazing praise of IF really.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#99

Post by amalgamated_inc »

jakeinspace wrote: post #9
somid3 wrote: post #4

Is the basic conclusion to skip dinner, and not skip breakfast?

I would need to see some pretty incredible benefits to give up dinner over breakfast, that sounds miserable. I suppose if you’re someone who gets up at 5 and sleeps at 9 or 10 every night, then skipping dinner might be easier.

+1

Also take into account your circadian rhythm. Humans have a variability of ~4h in our internal clocks, so when they eat lunch that might be breakfast for me.

If I eat dinner at 7pm and stay up until 2am (pretty normal for me), is that fine? Or did they toss me in with somebody who wakes up at 6am and goes to bed at 10pm, and thus only had maybe 2 hours between dinner and bed time?

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#100

Post by amalgamated_inc »

themitigating wrote: post #92
amalgamated_inc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+100 Big Science in nutrition, diet, and exercise is a grift. If the researcher is not also a practitioner (e.g. body builder or losing lots of weight) you can usually ignore the results. Also ignore any studies involving mice, food questionnaires or other self-reporting, meta-analyses..

"Big Science in nutrition, diet, and exercise is a grift" What's "Big Science"? You are also claiming it's all a scam? Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise? "If the researcher is not also a practitioner (e.g. body builder or losing lots of weight) you can usually ignore the results." Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it? Wouldn't that make them more bias…

> Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise?

Pretty much. All the mouse stuff, self reporting, and meta-studies and you're already at what, 90-95%?

> Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it

Skin in the game and incentives besides "increase # of studies/citations" and "get grant money."

Discovering vitamins was great, same for vaccines and probably monoclonal antibodies. I don't know anything about monoclonal antibodies.

What I do know is that Big Science knows 0 about diet (fat loss in particular) and exercise. They're not even wrong, they're just so insulated from reality that they're in the wrong ballpark.

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