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Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

health.harvard.edu

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Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#91

Post by IanOzsvald »

kqr wrote: post #52

The whole enterprise of trying to find "a normal" temperature seems silly to me, increasingly after getting two kids with fevers every now and then. We use both high-quality ear canal and anal thermometers, and while we have enough statistical grounds to unbias their results compared to each other, there remains significant variance. I.e. if we use an anal or ear canal thermometer makes temperature vary ±0.4 °C. Then…

With our infant using a digital thermometer in the ear, we routinely observe that the left ear is hotter than the right. We take 3 measurements in each ear, we see a similar variance as you mention per ear. Have you observed a similar difference? As adults with the same device we don't see a difference in our own ears.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#92

Post by Broken_Hippo »

lynx23 wrote: post #76
gpvos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was brought up with everything under 38 being subfebrile (Dutch "verhoging") which means to watch out, but no need to call the doctor yet.

I wouldn't call a doctor as long as I am below 40C, but thats maybe just me not wanting to uselessly overload the system... Other people seem to have different attitudes. Come to think of it, our local media just had an article saying doctors are asking patients to not come to the doctors office just because they have a little fever. A similar thing seems to happen in children ambulances. Doctors tell me that 90% of…

I never let it hit that high. I take something. By the time I hit 39.4, I'm at the point that I'm nearly hallucinating. I can't stay sitting upright in a doctor's office and simply cannot drive myself. I wouldn't trust myself not to get lost walking 2 blocks to the hospital.

I've had this happen as an adult: The doctors office had me take 800mg of children's ibuprofen and had me wait until the fever started coming down: If it didn't, they were going to call an ambulance. Sidenote: Children's liquid medicine tastes horrible.

40C (104F) isn't just a little fever, and is definitely in the danger zone for both children and adults. You should probably get to the doctor before that, in general - especially if you react as I do at a lower temperature.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#93

Post by kqr »

IanOzsvald wrote: post #91
kqr wrote: post #52

The whole enterprise of trying to find "a normal" temperature seems silly to me, increasingly after getting two kids with fevers every now and then. We use both high-quality ear canal and anal thermometers, and while we have enough statistical grounds to unbias their results compared to each other, there remains significant variance. I.e. if we use an anal or ear canal thermometer makes temperature vary ±0.4 °C. Then…

With our infant using a digital thermometer in the ear, we routinely observe that the left ear is hotter than the right. We take 3 measurements in each ear, we see a similar variance as you mention per ear. Have you observed a similar difference? As adults with the same device we don't see a difference in our own ears.

Sometimes the ears differ, and we use the warmer of the temperatures as our final measurement, as per the instruction booklet of the thermometer. I have not stopped to consider whether this is a consistent chirality bias or just noise!

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#94

Post by yellow_lead »

IanOzsvald wrote: post #91
kqr wrote: post #52

The whole enterprise of trying to find "a normal" temperature seems silly to me, increasingly after getting two kids with fevers every now and then. We use both high-quality ear canal and anal thermometers, and while we have enough statistical grounds to unbias their results compared to each other, there remains significant variance. I.e. if we use an anal or ear canal thermometer makes temperature vary ±0.4 °C. Then…

With our infant using a digital thermometer in the ear, we routinely observe that the left ear is hotter than the right. We take 3 measurements in each ear, we see a similar variance as you mention per ear. Have you observed a similar difference? As adults with the same device we don't see a difference in our own ears.

Maybe it depends on if your child is left brained or right brained (just kidding)

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#95

Post by qwerty456127 »

Perhaps the temperature of the perfectly healthy state can vary between people as can their sensitivity to deviations. As for me, though, it has always been exactly 36.6°C. The idea of somebody telling me 37°C is healthy drives me mad because I feel terrible at 37°C, such temperature indicates I am surely sick and will probably infect others. As soon as my temperature deviates from 36.6°C (36.65°C is Ok, 36.7°C is not) I immediately feel physical discomfort in my whole body and that is not a placebo effect - I feel it first and confirm it with a measurement after.

I measure my temperature in my armpit using a classic mercury thermometer. I tried an electronic thermometer but found it imprecise.

This way I want to defend 36.6°C as the normal temperature and to abolish 37°C being considered normal as well. Perhaps it can be normal but that would be an individual trait of a specific person. Unless such a temperature is proven normal for this specific person, a person with 37°C armpit temperature should not be allowed to visit the office, attend flights etc.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#96

Post by sokoloff »

kqr wrote: post #70
oefrha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it does matter, look up systematic error and random error.

Before being very dismissive, please consider the alternative that I do know about the things you mention, and that there are other ways of looking at the situation. 1. If the ear temperature are consistently wrong (systematic error) it is very easy to debias them and they become equivalent (modulo random error) to anal temperatures. 2. Perhaps cephalic temperature is a better diagnostic tool than gut temperature to…

> the brain is a more sensitive organ than the butt

The more time I spend on the internet, the less certain of this I become.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#97

Post by kijin »

kolinko wrote: post #9

In Poland normal has always been considered 36.6C, which is 97.9F, which the article states as a proposed new normal.

In Japan, a lot of people think that 36C is the norm. In South Korea, everyone thinks it has to be 36.5C. Either the average swings quite widely depending on your ethnicity and/or environment, or everyone is confused about how to round floating point numbers.

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#98

Post by elevaet »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #92
lynx23 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call a doctor as long as I am below 40C, but thats maybe just me not wanting to uselessly overload the system... Other people seem to have different attitudes. Come to think of it, our local media just had an article saying doctors are asking patients to not come to the doctors office just because they have a little fever. A similar thing seems to happen in children ambulances. Doctors tell me that 90% of…

I never let it hit that high. I take something. By the time I hit 39.4, I'm at the point that I'm nearly hallucinating. I can't stay sitting upright in a doctor's office and simply cannot drive myself. I wouldn't trust myself not to get lost walking 2 blocks to the hospital. I've had this happen as an adult: The doctors office had me take 800mg of children's ibuprofen and had me wait until the fever started coming do…

40C is risking seizures

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#99

Post by Timshel »

kqr wrote: post #52

The whole enterprise of trying to find "a normal" temperature seems silly to me, increasingly after getting two kids with fevers every now and then. We use both high-quality ear canal and anal thermometers, and while we have enough statistical grounds to unbias their results compared to each other, there remains significant variance. I.e. if we use an anal or ear canal thermometer makes temperature vary ±0.4 °C. Then…

Anyway "Fever Is Your Friend" :). Cf from yesterday : https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/zwz7t1/dont_worry...

Re: Time to redefine normal body temperature? (2020)

#100

Post by kqr »

kqr wrote: post #73
aleken wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud your accuracy when measuring your kids' temperature. My approach when figuring out if my kids are sick is if their temperature is "high" and their general appearance and conditition is out of the ordinary. The exact decimal of the temperature doesn't matter too much by itself.

We didn't always care to this accuracy. We just used the anal temperature and went on with our day. Then we got the ear canal thermometer for convenience and discovered that the result was not what we expected, so I got curious and started keeping detailed records... But in the end, I want to get to the point where you are, using a rough rule of thumb. I'm just taking the evidence-based route there!

Hah! I just now realised the English word is "rectal" not "anal" but it seems my comment influenced plenty of other people to use the wrong word too!
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