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GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

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Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#91

Post by DemocracyFTW2 »

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #81
pfoof wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you even use cat to write? I understand dd or echo, but cat by itself? Cat /dev/whatever and a steady hand?

$ cat test > this is a test text file > written with cat > EOF $ cat > test > this is an extra line at the end > EOF $ cat test this is a test text file written with cat this is an extra line at the end But not sure how you modify them. An option will be using other tools but that makes cat incapable of being a text editor .

That said, this is in no way below the practicability of using butterflies and cosmic rays

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#92

Post by lynx23 »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #80
forgotpwd16 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you even hurt yourself with something that has on-screen help?

When people don't know what ^X means - it's Linux, most tools are very specific of flags and the order in which you put them on the command line. So is nano saying - SHIFT-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - SHIFT-[6](^)-x - CTRL-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - CTRL-[6](^)-x All I see is '^X', on my keyboard '^' is on 6. Why the hell isn't this working? Little does little Sally know that this is a UNIXism, carat means 'CTRL', X is really just 'x' - b…

Is there a particular reason why you seem to imply that little knowledge == female? Sometimes the meme of "we need to mention girls more" works in unexpected directions if people are not careful.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#93

Post by dig1 »

p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

If you look at how other (console) programs on the system work, Vi(m) is more consistent than Nano. ed, sed, awk, readline, even perl... knowing one of them, you know how to use vi. Likewise, know vi, you know how to use most of these tools (sans visual/modal editing abstraction).

Also, it follows the Unix spirit of making small programs (in Vi(m) it can be seen as "a small number of key presses") and composing them for more complex actions. In Vi(m), almost everything is composable with everything: jumping to the line, deleting line ranges, joining ranges, etc. In Nano (and in Emacs), you end up with tons of Ctrl-keyX-keyB-keyC presses or cursor movements.

Example: delete a line - you'd have to jump to the beginning or the end of the line first, then hit Ctrl-k. In vi, it is just "dd", no matter where your cursor is. Or, delete 5 lines from the beginning with vi: "gg5dd". Not sure how you can get more unixy than that ;)

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#94

Post by deafpolygon »

I use vim because I prefer modal editors when editing config files - "normal" mode prevents me from fat-fingering a lot of my config, and undo is a simple "u" away. :setlist allows me to see if I have any stray invisible characters.

However, as a default for new distributions, nano is a solid choice (with the command help on the bottom). Any experienced users can just type vi, or update the EDITOR env var. It's about as friction-less as running a different command.

However, once you grok vi, there's no going back.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#95

Post by DemocracyFTW2 »

red_trumpet wrote: post #30
DemocracyFTW2 wrote: post #22

Highly reminiscent of #378: * nano? Real Programmers use emacs. * Hey. Real Programmers use vim. * Well, Real Programmers use ed. * No, Real Programmers use cat. * Real Programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand. * Excuse me, but Real Programmers use butterflies. They open their hands and let the delicate wings flap once. The disturbances ripple outward, changing the flow of the eddy currents in the upper…

You forgot the last panel: * Nice. 'Course there's an emacs command to do that. * Oh yeah! Good ol' `C-x M-c M-butterfly`... * Dammit, emacs! https://xkcd.com/378/

yeah deliberately left that out

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#96

Post by throw0101c »

p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

Conversely, as multi-decade Unix user, when I type in "vi" I want to get Vi, I do not want Vim starting.

If I wanted Vim I would have typed in "vim".

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#97

Post by dijit »

nkozyra wrote: post #19
dijit wrote: post #5

There was a time (2006?) when I was getting into linux. I was a big microsofty, due to comfort mostly, and I was shamed into trying Linux. Like most people I went Ubuntu first, but wifi drivers at the time were lacking, and nvidia of yore was certainly not better than nvidia of now. Suffice it to say: I spent a lot of time in the terminal trying to fix things. Nano was my tool of choice because: honestly the initial…

> I feel like nano shipping as the default editor is a step-back. We have a less powerful tool because we want to attract newbies Perhaps, but your experience sounds like a good blueprint for what new terminal users might want. Start with nano move to more powerful tools when you need them.

my concern would be that I dont think people would reach for the more powerful tools; since they arent being pressured into learning them and its impossible to articulate the power you would get until you have it.

I was extremely resistant to learn new things when I thought my current way of working was perfectly fine.

It’s only retrospectively that I realise how limited I was.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#98

Post by forgotpwd16 »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #80
forgotpwd16 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you even hurt yourself with something that has on-screen help?

When people don't know what ^X means - it's Linux, most tools are very specific of flags and the order in which you put them on the command line. So is nano saying - SHIFT-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - SHIFT-[6](^)-x - CTRL-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - CTRL-[6](^)-x All I see is '^X', on my keyboard '^' is on 6. Why the hell isn't this working? Little does little Sally know that this is a UNIXism, carat means 'CTRL', X is really just 'x' - b…

>All I see is '^X', on my keyboard '^' is on 6.

Fair. Have to say though if you just invoke `nano` (that is nano isn't opened with a file) there's a tooltip saying check 'Ctrl-G' which explains that ^ is Ctrl and M- is Alt.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#99

Post by pjmlp »

elsjaako wrote: post #87
p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

I'm an enthousiastic vim user. I think everyone who spends a lot if time editing text and who doesn't use vim (or similar) is probably missing out (including the author of this article). I think vim is really good. But I 100% agree that vim is a stupid default. In almost every context it's going to confuse more people than it makes happy.

I have used VI in and out since introduced to it on Xenix in 1993.

Definitely not missing out.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#100

Post by palata »

sfx77 wrote: post #25
b112 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wha?! Nothing matches the power of vi or emacs. Nothing. If you don't want the power, or don't need the tool, fine. I get that. But calling vi terrible, is like complaining that a sledgehammer is terrible, because you want to hang a picture, and that's all you have.

That's the thing. I want to hang a picture.

Have you tried Windows or macOS? They are really good at hanging pictures.
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