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Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

iranintl.com

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Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#91

Post by Georgelemental »

luckylion wrote: post #16
saint_fiasco wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already. If bad leaders got executed, then the incentive for bad leaders would be to stay in power no matter the cost. The reason dictatorships turn murderous when they lose popularity is that the dictator knows they will be killed if the opposition wins, so they have no choic…

> The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already. That sounds plausible, but does it actually happen? I mean, tyrants have certainly fled the country to live somewhere else and retire their ambitions, but have they ever done so peacefully?

Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated and went into exile without too much resistance.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#92

Post by Georgelemental »

tokai wrote: post #75
throwawaymaths wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Gaddafi a murderous villain? By my understanding he sponsored IRA terrorists and unnecessarily attacked Egypt and Algeria in some minor conflicts and a few public executions (Lockerbie was pretty clearly a Syrian action).... That's it? I do think he claimed to be a murderous villain since that was working for assad I could be wrong but on raw terms it's not too far off from say any given us president in the last…

So how many people do you need to get killed before you can be a murderous villain? You are actually underlining the point with your apologia for a dictator. It also would be nice if US presidents also took the consequences of their crimes. But your whataboutism is not really an argument for anything here.

Probably most world leaders are "murderous villains" in some way or another. It sucks, but much better than universal anarchy and civil war

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#93

Post by m00dy »

Fatnino wrote: post #89
m00dy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is clearing mines on its border for no reason and right after these operations, something big is happening. This is the relation. I hope it is clear.

How does the existence of a minefield near but not in Iran contribute to stability in Iran? How does the removal of those mines destabilized Iran? These are obviously unrelated.

Because, it is all planned way before. Why would you remove those mines ? Turkey has no reason to do that. Maybe they know something...Maybe the regime won't survive and a lot of people will need to run away from their homeland. They might need some secure migration pathways.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#94

Post by Alir3z4 »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #61
Alir3z4 wrote: post #38

> Western diplomatic sources told Iran International > In early-November, an unnamed source at Tehran's Imam Khomeini Airport told Kayhan-London > Citing an unnamed Iranian source, > There are also unconfirmed reports that officials are transferring their assets to friendly countries Basically, "source? trust me bro!"

Yeah lets name them bro, then we can have articles like: "Iranian whistleblower found dead with signs of torture." Much better!

I find it hard to believe that in an era of smartphones and all these gadgets, there's no picture, video or any other type of evidence except "unnamed sources".

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#95

Post by mcv »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #94
adamsmith143 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah lets name them bro, then we can have articles like: "Iranian whistleblower found dead with signs of torture." Much better!

I find it hard to believe that in an era of smartphones and all these gadgets, there's no picture, video or any other type of evidence except "unnamed sources".

As adamsmith143 pointed out, if that evidence exists, it's probably better to keep it out of sight of Iranian authorities. If that means you don't believe it, then that's what it is. Exposing sources is a bad idea.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#96

Post by mcv »

Fatnino wrote: post #89
m00dy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is clearing mines on its border for no reason and right after these operations, something big is happening. This is the relation. I hope it is clear.

How does the existence of a minefield near but not in Iran contribute to stability in Iran? How does the removal of those mines destabilized Iran? These are obviously unrelated.

I guess the suggestion is that the removal of those mines will make it easier for future Iranian refugees to cross that border.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#97

Post by adamsmith143 »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #94
adamsmith143 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah lets name them bro, then we can have articles like: "Iranian whistleblower found dead with signs of torture." Much better!

I find it hard to believe that in an era of smartphones and all these gadgets, there's no picture, video or any other type of evidence except "unnamed sources".

Of course the evidence exists lol but you don't burn your sources if you ever want another hot tip and certainly not when it likely means a horrible death for them if you do.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#98

Post by themitigating »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #87
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

I had an innate negative reaction to your post and had to spend some time thinking about why that is the case. I think the biggest thing that caused it is the implicit assumption that increased fear for leaders would lead to better government outcomes. I'm not very confident that this is the case. I think the other part that triggered me is that an implies some singular authority that is determining the value of huma…

Threat of punishment is the basis of all law. You can call it "fear" to garner sympathy for your argument but I think you're not being consistent with your application of justice

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#99

Post by reducesuffering »

citilife wrote: post #80
mindslight wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this fear of "ending up like Gaddafi" still doesn't doesn't make for a justification, or even an explanation, of why Putin thought it was a good idea to invade a neighboring country. Egging "The West" on made that worry much closer to becoming real. If Putin wanted to be left alone, he's done the exact wrong thing. I think the fuller explanation is that Putin got drunk on his own Kool-aid of successful prop…

I think Putin was actually extremely clear why he invaded Ukraine. NATO was expanding to Russia's border https://nypost.com/2021/12/23/putin-demands-nato-not-expand-... Ukraine was hostile to the Russian people, banning their language in schools and refusing to uphold neutrality. France tried to broker a deal before the war broke out (upholding the Minsk agreements). https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-to-meet-macron-…

> I think Putin was actually extremely clear why he invaded Ukraine

I think Putin was actually extremely clear before February that Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. Oh wait, he lied.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#100

Post by reducesuffering »

greggarious wrote: post #14
keewee7 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kosovo-Albanians (and Ukrainians) are probably the most pro-American people in the world right now. Just because Kosovo is Muslim-majority does not mean they're friendly to the Iranian regime.

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying they wanted them. I was just saying it's weird to me if someone claims to want an Islamic Republic to move to a secular place rather than, say, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the UAE. Sorry -- I didn't mean to insult folks from Kosovo or Albania. (I'm not a nationalist, I just utilize the existing neoliberal laws and norms to move us to something more respectful of personal autonomy while respecti…

> rather than, say, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the UAE

All of these are bitter enemies of the Iranian government.

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