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The $205.4B Gulag

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Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#91

Post by rayiner »

legutierr wrote: post #38
rayiner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing factory workers anywhere to grad students in California is remarkable. Grad students endure the conditions voluntarily. They would have tons of alternative options in the private sector if they chose to do that.

So graduate education should only be available to the children of the wealthy, in your opinion?

I think graduate students are aspiring members of the petit bourgeoise, and typically are going to come from such families anyway, and shouldn’t dilute real workers’ movements with their quite distinct interests.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#92

Post by fmajid »

tristor wrote: post #9

I am making a concerted effort in my life to avoid buying things made in China. It’s harder than it sounds, and in the case of consumer electronics, impossible. If the point of this article is to make the reader feel bad for buying an iPhone, they’ve failed. Nearly every electronics device sold in the US is made or assembled in China, and most under even worse conditions than FoxConn.

My new Mac Studo was made in Malaysia, and the computer I bought before, a Gigabyte Aorus 17G, in Taiwan. The workers at this factory rioted because they had been held there against their will due to a Covid lockdown, as opposed to the more usual being locked out of your workplace and livelihood. Ironically Xi Jinping’s inflexible zero-Covid policy is making the Chinese supply chain unreliable and doing what no amount of human-rights abuse or US government pressure could do, forcing Apple to move production out of China to places like Vietnam and India.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#93

Post by dirtyid »

fmajid wrote: post #92
tristor wrote: post #9

I am making a concerted effort in my life to avoid buying things made in China. It’s harder than it sounds, and in the case of consumer electronics, impossible. If the point of this article is to make the reader feel bad for buying an iPhone, they’ve failed. Nearly every electronics device sold in the US is made or assembled in China, and most under even worse conditions than FoxConn.

My new Mac Studo was made in Malaysia, and the computer I bought before, a Gigabyte Aorus 17G, in Taiwan. The workers at this factory rioted because they had been held there against their will due to a Covid lockdown, as opposed to the more usual being locked out of your workplace and livelihood. Ironically Xi Jinping’s inflexible zero-Covid policy is making the Chinese supply chain unreliable and doing what no amoun…

> The workers at this factory rioted because they had been held there against their will due to a Covid lockdown

Literally the opposite.

Foxconn was trying to kick workers OUT of factory which had to shutter due to covid - the riot was over lack of compensation + bonuses. Which is about Foxconn who is infamous for mistreating workers in plants across east Asia, hence Apple doing +1 shift with Foxconn doesn't change anything, see Indian plant riotting over similar issue. Mac Studio still assembled by Foxconn. Root of problem is TW business culture, the shit practices in PRC are learned from OG TW base manufacturers who hasn't changed much, Gigabyte isn't spared.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#94

Post by dirtyid »

tristor wrote: post #9

I am making a concerted effort in my life to avoid buying things made in China. It’s harder than it sounds, and in the case of consumer electronics, impossible. If the point of this article is to make the reader feel bad for buying an iPhone, they’ve failed. Nearly every electronics device sold in the US is made or assembled in China, and most under even worse conditions than FoxConn.

>assembled in China, and most under even worse conditions than FoxConn

Citation needed. There's a reason Honhai / Foxconn / TW businesses have decades old bad rep in East Asia, in terms of working conditions, mistreating workers, withholding compensation and passports. Much of the China-bad meme of rampant gulag capitalism applies and were imported from TW by TW business culture (granted at invitation of PRC), from gutteroil to tofu construction, distant fishing slavery etc. Poor TW workers rights get exported abroad (i.e. Indian plant) where they're generally invited and hence have leverage to mistreat. If anything, from my experience, working conditions in PRC manufacturing sectors comparable to Foxconn are now generally better, more abide by rights and laws simply because PRC nationals can be easily held accountable vs. Foxconn getting immunity from local gov due to cross strait cooperation perks, or whatever regional equivalent to draw Foxconn investment. Labour issue will persist regardless of where you buy from, because likely you'll still be buying from the same global manufacturing company known for not having scruples.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#95

Post by AstralStorm »

jfvinueza wrote: post #78
zeven7 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the point of this article is to make the reader feel bad for buying an iPhone, they’ve failed. Nearly every electronics device sold in the US is made or assembled in China I would still say it's good to call attention to the problem even if there's no real solution for consumers.

Well, customers actually can buy less stuff and replace current technologic devices at a slower pace.

Unfortunately cheap lithium ion batteries literally carry an expiration date. Few years and you operate on fraction of capacity and it's getting ever harder to replace the cells.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#96

Post by AstralStorm »

tsimionescu wrote: post #52
BurningFrog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profitable companies outcompete less competitive ones. No one decided that, it's just a fact.

Actually, a company that accrues a lot of profit could always be outcompeted by one willing to make less profits. Profit is a cost to the company itself, it is only beneficial to shareholders. On the other hand, it's true that companies with lower costs will tend to outcompete others, so moving to China is sort of dictated by the market.

To a point. You cannot go lower than base cost, and can be made irrelevant by sheer volume.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#97

Post by AstralStorm »

xyzzyz wrote: post #84
epistasis wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your position is that they should quit instead of negotiate for better conditions? Who is that better for and why? You don't provide any argument for why that's a better course of action for anybody. As somebody who benefits, indirectly, from their work, since their work benefits all of society, I'm much happier with them improving the working conditions and continuing to work, rather than quitting and losing that…

No, my position is that their situation is not so terrible as claimed by the people who compare the grad students to low paid workers in retail or manufacturing. They are compensated highly in non-financial terms. More importantly, the main reason people negotiate with one another is that they hope to achieve better outcomes than they can with either a default of no action, or unilateral actions. Imagine that the gra…

Oh, they can do far more than just quit. The threat of a strike is one of explicit disruption of work and distribution of products.

Potentially even including violence against strikebreakers.

There can be other threats against people responsible for salaries and work conditions directly.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#98

Post by AstralStorm »

Invictus0 wrote: post #82
Etheryte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More often than not, no. Many of these types of factories are intentionally designed to lock workers into a never ending loop, where they're tied in living paycheck to paycheck, often paying rent for a room that's owned by the same company that runs the factory, buying food from a store that's owned by the same company, etc. There are even cases where workers get paid in cash in a custom "currency" operated by the co…

You just made all that up. The foxconn dorms are free. There is no "foxconn bucks".

Free until you do anything against the company policy. The point stands, the employer controls ever now of your livelihood making the cost of disobedience and switching employment higher.

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#99

Post by [deleted] »

Elinvynia wrote: post #73
cpsns wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's is extremely unpopular with the general public, much less here on HN. Ask people to reduce their consumption and they have a tendency to lash out.

Especially if it concerns meat!

[deleted]

Re: The $205.4B Gulag

#100

Post by cpsns »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #43
cpsns wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's is extremely unpopular with the general public, much less here on HN. Ask people to reduce their consumption and they have a tendency to lash out.

Why is that? I've noticed that nearly all of these new toys don't improve my quality of life. Do people buy things as a dopamine hit and form of escapism? It certainly seems that way.

Yes, that's exactly what it is. We live in a society where happiness is just an amazon box away. It doesn't last long, but with overnight shipping people don't need it to.

Almost every ad you see is trying to tell people how much better their life will be with a product and how much happier they'll be.

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