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Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

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Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#91

Post by hellfish »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #37
nonrandomstring wrote: post #13

I see a lot of very intelligent people here unable to agree upon a matter that seems, in essence, simple enough. That is in itself troubling and partly answers a question. If developers on Hacker News cannot fathom whether Apple deceptively transmitted PII, or whether zealous journalists are over-egging the pudding, then we have another problem. Obfuscation is a form of deception through complexity. It can be hard to…

I think this can be explained by simple denial; Apple's reality distortion field, or some variation on "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Maybe not salary, but a foundational world view, much like religion. I mean, people on HN will argue that it's wrong to block ads, a point of view that only makes sense to me through the lens of the above quo…

> I mean, people on HN will argue that it's wrong to block ads

I've never seen this attitude here. Not once. Do you have any examples?

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#92

Post by scarface74 »

Shoue wrote: post #80
bsenftner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, all mega corps seem to blend together and follow the same playbook. It's sad. Yet another glaring indicator identifying our species as not mature enough to manage our own society. If this occurs everywhere, no matter what, then it is us, our constitution, our chemistry, our maturity as a species that is at fault.

Not really, systems affect our behaviour. We created the system that is our current market economy, and we have the ability to construct new systems that encourage better behaviour. For example, studies show that cooperatively ran businesses are more ethical and more stable: > [...] Additionally, "cooperative banks build up counter-cyclical buffers that function well in case of a crisis," and are less likely to lead…

> Public trust in credit unions stands at 60%, compared to 30% for big banks and small businesses are five times less likely to be dissatisfied with a credit union than with a big bank

All organizations seek to accrue power and revenue - even “non profits”.

I saw it from one of the local credit unions I worked at in college…

1. First it was a credit union for a few large companies

2. Then it redid its charter to become a “regional credit union”

3. Then it said “fuck it we are bank”

Meet the old boss..

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#93

Post by scarface74 »

amelius wrote: post #34
newaccount74 wrote: post #7

Can someone explain why the App Store doesn't show the "Ask App Not To Track" dialog? Why do 3rd party apps have to ask for permission to track, but Apple's apps do not?

Why don't apps show the EU cookie banner? It seems that apps have an unfair advantage over websites.

Unfair advantage == it isn’t a usability nightmare caused by ignorant lawmakers

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#94

Post by hellfish »

shawn-butler wrote: post #69
pacifika wrote: post #62

Allegedly it’s fine because they’re collecting information for internal use and not sharing with third parties, but really the industry is trying to redefine tracking as cross service/site tracking. Well I think they should set the same bar internally

Why? What is the value in anonymizing your voluntary engagement within a single corporate entity? As long as that entity provides me with an accurate reporting of access when I request it? Why for example would I want to make it any more difficult for my doctor at a hospital and the hospital pharmacy to share my confidential health information to ensure I get the right treatment?

> What is the value in anonymizing your voluntary engagement within a single corporate entity?

Because up to a certain point it isn't voluntary

> Why for example would I want to make it any more difficult for my doctor at a hospital and the hospital pharmacy to share my confidential health information to ensure I get the right treatment?

Because principle of least privilege. This is one example, another could be the doctor sharing health data with an internal hospital logging service, which is utilizing some cloud service, which is utilizing some other cloud service, etc

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#95

Post by JKCalhoun »

> I am also shocked by the granularity of information in these storefront analytics. It is relevant to Apple’s recommendation engine if I listened to an album or song and whether I finished it, but it is hard to see what value it has in knowing my track playback to the millisecond.

Not surprised. As soon as it was possible to get this kind of information about app usage (thanks, Internet!) of course management wanted everything.

Apple has its own privacy teams that work with the teams developing apps. Data collection is treated as a Big Deal and "Privacy" will grill you on every single byte that you want to collect. And any bit of data that might reveal personally-identifiable-information is a nonstarter.

As an example, we could not report back error messages from the OS, only error codes. Why? Error code might be "123" but error message could be "Error 123, You just removed hard drive 'Calhoun Data' without unmounting..."

Perhaps the downside of this gatekeeping though is that I feel it causes management to come to the table asking for everything, letting privacy whittle it down. With major app release cycles 6 or 12 months apart, I think management sometimes don't know what data they might want - would rather not have to wait perhaps up to a year for the new metric to be included.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#96

Post by scarface74 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #13

I see a lot of very intelligent people here unable to agree upon a matter that seems, in essence, simple enough. That is in itself troubling and partly answers a question. If developers on Hacker News cannot fathom whether Apple deceptively transmitted PII, or whether zealous journalists are over-egging the pudding, then we have another problem. Obfuscation is a form of deception through complexity. It can be hard to…

You’re logged into an Apple device with your Apple ID going to an Apple online service where Apple obviously knows what you bought. Saying that Apple is keeping track of what you do on their service is like saying that you didn’t know your doctor has your medical records and took notes of your interactions with them

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#97

Post by dessant »

scarface74 wrote: post #90
dessant wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public dismissal of the evidence these researchers presented in the last few weeks was surprising. It isn't truly important whether the App Store is an integral component of iOS, which it practically is until Apple becomes compliant with the provisions of the Digital Markets Act, it merely compounds their legal issues due to ignoring user intent when iOS analytics are disabled. The main issue here is that Apple h…

> when the reality is that one needs to hack an iPhone to see how this data is being syphoned off The author of the article wrote that all he had to do was request his data from Apple.

> The author of the article wrote that all he had to do was request his data from Apple

You observation has nothing to do with what is being discussed, we have a right to inspect the network activity of our devices.

I remember you posting in threads criticizing Apple, almost always coming to their defense. You've been doing this for years.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#98

Post by scarface74 »

amelius wrote: post #31
jll29 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cookie is not a PII identifier, it is an "identity discriminator". In other words cookies let them tell you the _same_ person 104898 that was already here in March, welcome back!, and not any other person e.g. 298472, but without telling them your actual name etc. In contrast, a PII identifier is a unique ID that is linked to personal attributes in real life like a person's name ("John Doe"), address ("6400 Bouleva…

Apple ID is still a cookie and that is enough for me to avoid them like the plague.

If you don’t want to use services where the site keeps a cookie on your computer, you might want to avoid HN…

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#99

Post by scarface74 »

dessant wrote: post #97
scarface74 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the reality is that one needs to hack an iPhone to see how this data is being syphoned off The author of the article wrote that all he had to do was request his data from Apple.

> The author of the article wrote that all he had to do was request his data from Apple You observation has nothing to do with what is being discussed, we have a right to inspect the network activity of our devices. I remember you posting in threads criticizing Apple, almost always coming to their defense. You've been doing this for years.

> one needs to hack the device to see what data has.

This is a provably false claim based on the authors own experience.

Guess what? You also have no idea what your phone is sending the carrier or any other service provider.

But as far as you knowing who I am because of my posting history, “but for me it was Tuesday”

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#100

Post by amelius »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #83
amelius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple ID is still a cookie and that is enough for me to avoid them like the plague.

Cookies are a required part of any login system. Your Apple ID is used to identify you, just as @amelius identifies you here.

HN doesn't offer so many services across which they can track and identify users.
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