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CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

cpsc.gov

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Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#91

Post by parkingrift »

I don't know why the CPSC has singled out Onewheel. If they're going to try and regulate this new class of mobility they need to do better than phoning it in. This feels just as random and absurd as the clampdowns on Juul. Don't buy Juul, but do feel free to buy flavored nicotine from these thousands of other less scrupulous vendors.

There are absurdly under braked e-bikes with 30+ mph motors, electric scooters with 40+ mph motors, "unicycles" with 40+ mph motors, and even competing "onewheel" type products. Based on the arguments provided in the linked article these are all worthy of regulation. I disagree with the premise, but if they're going to regulate one they should regulate all.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#92

Post by roughly »

frankus wrote: post #37
roughly wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up an e-bike not too long ago and took a bit to decide between class 2 and class 3 - I didn’t have enough experience with a bike and a speedometer to gauge whether the 20mph limit on class 2 would be enough. Having ridden around for a while now, yeah, absolutely agree - anything over ~15-20mph is above my comfort zone for “able to adjust to sudden changes in the environment.” Folks who get the “class 4”s are…

It's a bit of a balance. It's great to be able to keep up with the 25 mph/40 kph traffic on city streets, but small bumps in the pavement are rough and of course there's quadratically more energy to manage in the event of a crash. I think we need to normalize the idea that riding a class 3 bike requires using at a minimum a full-face helmet, motorcycle gloves, and close-toed shoes. Personally I'll likely keep riding…

Yeah, I'm lucky in that my city's done a fantastic job of creating bicycle infrastructure - between dedicated trails, clear bike lanes, and streets that have been designed & designated for bikes, it's rare I have to interact with fast-moving traffic (the rare times I do are just as unpleasant as everywhere else, of course).

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#93

Post by CharlesW »

shockeychap wrote: post #80
latchkey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Yes. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri... Edit: I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of injuries. Especially with random lockups. There are videos about the poor construction, lockups, dangerous to self repair, etc. I found them when I sta…

This is not a link to a video describing a specific bug in the product. It's just a link to a search of "onewheel injuries" in YouTube, which presents a variety of videos detailing all manner of injuries that come from operator error and the inherent dangers of OneWheel operation. Try searching for "mountain bike injuries" and see what you get. Is there anything else? (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clear…

> (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this confirmed?)

The first few seconds of this 2-year-old video shows it happening to Adam Savage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY

What I'm finding after some light digging is that this "nosedive" problem has seemingly been injuring people for years. There's apparently even a small ecosystem of add-on products that purport to address it: https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#94

Post by Zak »

latchkey wrote: post #61
celestialcheese wrote: post #52

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortali…

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Yes. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri... Edit: I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of injuries. Especially with random lockups. There are videos about the poor construction, lockups, dangerous to self repair, etc. I found them when I sta…

These search results do not appear to describe a flaw in the product. I watched a bit from one of the crash compilations and would describe every crash I saw as rider error. Many of them were attempting stunts, holding cameras while riding, or both.

It may be easy to make such errors, but the same could be said of a unicycle, skateboard, BMX bike, or any of many other vehicles generally seen as safe enough for sale to the public.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#95

Post by nomel »

advisedwang wrote: post #64
celestialcheese wrote: post #52

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortali…

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous generally, but a specific product flaw.

I don't think this is what's happening, at all. Here's a deep dive into what's actually happening, which is people ignoring built in safety, overpowering the motors ability to keep them upright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI

The motor is at maximum power and speed when this happens.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#96

Post by roughly »

whimsicalism wrote: post #69
0_____0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new e-bike rider who suddenly is capable of 20mph and has no experience to the contrary might assume (wrongly) that they can navigate safely at that speed. Cyclists who can maintain 20+ mph on flat ground (not at all uncommon!) will have many more riding hours under their belts, and the commensurate handling skills and instincts.

This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then cyclists. They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a greater degree.

I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those folks were frightening.

Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom, their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is still adequately supplied.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#97

Post by apienx »

celestialcheese wrote: post #52

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortali…

"I don't understand why now?"

Bureaucratic inefficiencies.

"Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death?"

There was an issue that the community referred to as "ghosting" whereby the board got a bit out of control. This was fixed with a firmware update. The boards also nosedive when approaching top speed. Some people consider that a bug, but it's just users neglecting instructions and warnings.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#98

Post by themagician »

rainsurf wrote: post #84
themagician wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had the power fail?

I assume you mean the board fully power off while riding? If yes, then no. It is possible to overload the motor by going over the maximum speed or going uphill by at too high of a speed but in that case the board will not actually power off. The only way the board may turn off is if is fully charged and you immediately ride it downhill (regenerative breaking). To protect the battery from overcharging the board it wil…

It's possible that the board just fails for any number of reasons.

I had a Boosted Board fail on me once. No idea why. It just powered off randomly while I was riding. Wasn't going downhill, wasn't full battery, wasn't a depleted battery. It was a bit scary to suddenly feel the power go out, but I was able to safely come to a stop. I was probably going about 15 MPH. I never figured out what happened. It turned right back on. This was the first time the board gave me pause. I kept riding for a few months until I did actually get hurt—100% on my own stupidity. I tried to go over some train tracks while leaning too much on the front trucks and was going fast, but not quite fast enough to cruise over them, and the wheels properly got stuck in the tracks, so I got to experience the fun of flying. Fortunately I was not critical injured, just extreme bruising. Helmet 100% saved my life though.

This is the same kind of thing that can happen with a OneWheel—only no user error is needed for it to happen, merely a power failure. OneWheel either needs an integrated solution that allows you to roll out in the event of a power failure, or some kind of redundancy to ensure the probability of a power failure is effectively zero. Anything less leads to (preventable) death.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#99

Post by neilv »

1attice wrote: post #8

With thunderstorms, you count seconds 'twixt bolt and boom. With the current golden age of electrified last-mile transport, we're seeing the gap between innovation and regulation opening up wide -- now several years. Real-world impact: I routinely get up to speeds on my e-bike that are, quite simply, dangerous. It's not that I never hit 25 miles an hour on my old road bike, it's that I spend so much more time hanging…

The speeds of the motorized scooters/bikes/etc., and seeming recklessness of their riders, has become a problem on the sidewalks of college town Cambridge, Mass.

For example, at least three times in the last week alone, I've literally almost been run into by someone blasting out of, or alongside, Harvard Yard on one motorized vehicle or another.

Some of the bicyclists seem similarly reckless and self-absorbed. A couple times in the last week I've almost been hit on the sidewalk by a speeding bicyclist.

Also, a few nights ago, I was almost struck in the head by someone on a Blue Bikes rental bike, blowing through a crosswalk that had a walk light, and after the cars had already stopped for the red. (They were also speeding across the ambulance entrance&exit for a hospital ED, so doubly reckless, though convenient for me, had they cracked my head open.)

Anecdotally, the bicyclist wtf rate seems much than it used to be, and I wonder whether some of the motorized vehicles are setting precedents for behavior.

I intend to bring this up with the City, where I know they have some people who care very much about bike etc. transportation. I'm also mentally composing a concerned letter to the Harvard administration, both about public safety, and about the image of their students as reckless and self-absorbed.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#100

Post by thot_experiment »

0_____0 wrote: post #70
deeblering4 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. If you've never been able to cruise on a skateboard, you might not realize how much damage an unexpected pebble or sidewalk crack will do. Riding is a constant balance of scanning the pavement for inconsistencies and making corrections to mitigate them. I don't know if that's even possible at 20+ mph.

Your latter point is why I'm not really sold on electric longboards. Your control authority on a longboard is pretty low, and you need a lot of control authority to react to surprise obstacles/maintain stability after encountering one. Sure, DH longboarders exceed 25mph regularly, but they ride in semi-controlled environments (scout the descent for gravel etc before hitting it) and are exceptionally skilled. Putting…

Practically speaking yes, but this isn't an unsolvable problem. I ride Originals spring trucks, which use a cam and a spring instead of the urethane bushing in most skate trucks. It takes effort to keep them steady at speed for sure, but paired with soft wheels they feel like pure telepathy in terms of control authority.
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