I've been at companies like this, and learned from peers that you had to write "CYA" (cover yourself) documents. But, I also learned learned that these documents should never skip levels of middle management, so that intermediaries have time to bury or re-frame the news.
Story: “It would be career limiting..."
91–100 of 342 posts
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#92> we hadn’t even received all of the specifications from the customer that we would need to complete the project > And then one of them said “It would be career limiting if the client were to hear this.” > I’d met my responsibility to the company – and the company had threatened me as a result. The author interprets that they were threatened. But really, for whom would it be career limiting? Perhaps I'm being too cha…
Granted, “it would be career limiting” is an ambiguous statement. We can reasonably assume that the story as written omits various context clues, additional communications, body language, and other ensuing events that gave the author a more complete understanding of what the manager meant when they said that.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#93I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
Doesn't sound like that was the job of this little committee. As written, it was to review and particularly identify extra work. Presenting solutions to this kind of problem isn't explicitly and often implicitly the function of the developer(s), especially in a room full of managers. Whose job it is literally to identify solutions to this exact kind of problem.
The managers might not understand the exact nature of the work. They want to know how they can reduce the scope: for which they need information about which work is urgent, or necessary at all. The mission is "please identify and estimate all untracked work so we can blindly put all of it into the plan, no matter how it delays the project".
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#94> we hadn’t even received all of the specifications from the customer that we would need to complete the project > And then one of them said “It would be career limiting if the client were to hear this.” > I’d met my responsibility to the company – and the company had threatened me as a result. The author interprets that they were threatened. But really, for whom would it be career limiting? Perhaps I'm being too cha…
If you are a manager, and you make this type of remark, do not get it twisted. You have made a threat, and you have created an adversarial situation that limits your report's ability to trust you. You've telegraphed to them that you're willing to throw them under the bus, and they will remember. If it doesn't feel like you're making a threat - it may feel to you like you're genuinely giving advice - then you have not…
This is 100% correct.
It doesn’t matter if it was intended as a threat because if it wasn’t, it was still an appallingly judged comment.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#95I love this website. Extremely simple with a clear an interesting focus. Great idea.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#96I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
> concoct a plan to stage the product development and release such that it gets done and you don't cost a giant contract Yes, always showing up with a solution to problems that you've surfaced is a good idea and good for your career, ... BUT: isn't coming up with a solution to this problem literally the job of the management team that they presented to? If management hears "the thing you think will happen will absolu…
How do you reckon they (good ones) ended up in management? :)
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#97Would it be legal (and, different question, do you think it would be ethical) in a case like this to quit and go to the client company proposing advice on how to negotiate to avoid the $60M loss? A role of advisor to let them know they need to get their shit together (and provide the required specs) and to guide themto ask for incremental delivery. As far as I can tell such a consultancy is easily worth $1M/year or m…
Great question. Would be nice to get a return on such insight.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#98Looking forward to reading more of these
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#99I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
> concoct a plan to stage the product development and release such that it gets done and you don't cost a giant contract Yes, always showing up with a solution to problems that you've surfaced is a good idea and good for your career, ... BUT: isn't coming up with a solution to this problem literally the job of the management team that they presented to? If management hears "the thing you think will happen will absolu…
Suppose you were a junior engineer working with a senior engineer. They gave you a task, and you came to a similar conclusion: it was their job to do X, but they weren't doing it.
Would you simply tell them they're not doing their job, or would you ask questions, talk in private, and try to dig in tactfully?
When I was 22 or so, I did go around telling a certain senior engineer that they weren't doing their job. I still cringe at how headstrong I was back then. The people around me were trying to hint that things aren't quite as clear cut as it seems, but it took a swift kick in my backside to reboot my worldview.
You're right that the optimal strategy is not to stress about it, though. That would've saved me a lot of heartache.
My point is (and the point of many other commenters here) is that you can't really show up to a meeting and say "This project is doomed." That's arguably one of the core advantages of startups over bigcos -- you can pivot.
Your options are to climb the politics ladder, or ride it out and see what happens. It depends how much you care, or how much responsibility you want.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#100> Bet that manager’s still at the company, though.
I can imagine. I don't know about you, but I met a lot of managers throughout my career that were masters in saving their own asses. They could not keep their P/L up to date. They didn't have time for that, as they were working 24x7 to avoid the hot potato. Amazing! Pure art! Art of avoidance!